DC-DC

28 messages

1 2

DC-DC

Reply Threaded

I am working on the wiring diagram for my conversion and I would like
to know if I should disconnect the DC-DC Converter from the pack when
the ignition key is turned off. I have seen circuits floating around
showing it both ways. If so, can anyone suggest a source for a DPDT or
DPST relay with a 12V coil for a 144V nominal pack?

Thanks for your help!

--
MikeB2

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steveb48

Re: DC-DC

Reply Threaded

You will lose things like clocks and radio presets if you kill all of
the 12v

Steve

Sent from my iPod

On Dec 9, 2008, at 9:14 AM, "Mike Boyles" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I am working on the wiring diagram for my conversion and I would like
> to know if I should disconnect the DC-DC Converter from the pack when
> the ignition key is turned off. I have seen circuits floating around
> showing it both ways. If so, can anyone suggest a source for a DPDT or
> DPST relay with a 12V coil for a 144V nominal pack?
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
>
> --
> MikeB2
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
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>

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drowe67

Re: DC-DC

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Mike Boyles

Hi Mike,

Some people leave the DC-DC running 24/7 however I didn't like the ideas
of the DC-DC running when I wasn't around (especially in hot weather) so
I used a solid state relay to switch it from the ignition "on" position:

http://www.futurlec.com/RelSS.shtml

(SSRDC200V40A at the bottom of the page, US$24.90)

You need to be careful that the relay you choose can handle your DC pack
voltage.

There was one other problem - I found my 12V accessory battery was
discharging into the DC-DC converter when it was off, at about 100mA.
So I used a bunch of 5A Schottky diodes in parallel to make the current
one way. I measured a maximum of about 30A on my 12V circuits with all
12V stuff on, but this depends on the car. A 12V relay is another way
to handle this. However it depends on your DC-DC converter - maybe find
one that doesn't draw any current when off.

- David

On Tue, 2008-12-09 at 11:14 -0600, Mike Boyles wrote:
> I am working on the wiring diagram for my conversion and I would like
> to know if I should disconnect the DC-DC Converter from the pack when
> the ignition key is turned off. I have seen circuits floating around
> showing it both ways. If so, can anyone suggest a source for a DPDT or
> DPST relay with a 12V coil for a 144V nominal pack?
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
>
--
Free Telephony Project
open embedded IP-PBX hardware and software
http://www.rowetel.com/ucasterisk

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Mike Boyles

Re: DC-DC

Reply Threaded

Thanks Guys,

Steve, I failed to mention I have an accessory battery on board as well.

David, that looks like just what I need!

all the best,

Mike B2

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nicklogan

Re: DC-DC

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Mike Boyles

Mike,
I wanted to know if you found a satisfactory solution to this question as I'm trying to do the same thing ( switch on an IOTA DLS55 from a 144V battery pack when the ignition switch is turned on ). The answers in this thread suggested several solutions. What did you end up doing?
Advice from others who have implemented a working solution to this problem or can suggest parts/sources are also very welcome.

Thanks,

John Nicholson

Mike Boyles wrote:

I am working on the wiring diagram for my conversion and I would like
to know if I should disconnect the DC-DC Converter from the pack when
the ignition key is turned off. I have seen circuits floating around
showing it both ways. If so, can anyone suggest a source for a DPDT or
DPST relay with a 12V coil for a 144V nominal pack?

Thanks for your help!

--
MikeB2

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John G. Lussmyer

Re: DC-DC

Reply Threaded

nicklogan wrote:
> I wanted to know if you found a satisfactory solution to this question
> as I'm trying to do the same thing ( switch on an IOTA DLS55 from a 144V
> battery pack when the ignition switch is turned on ). The answers in this
> thread suggested several solutions. What did you end up doing?
> Advice from others who have implemented a working solution to this
> problem or can suggest parts/sources are also very welcome.
>
Have you measured the idle current on the IOTA? I think it's pretty high so that you really do want to disconnect it when the vehicle is off.
You could probably use a KUEP relay. (which I admit to selling on my website. They are also good for controlling heaters..)

--
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[hidden email]
Electric Vehicle Battery Monitoring Systems, http://www.CasaDelGato.com

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Bill Dennis

Re: DC-DC

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Mike Boyles

Jack Rickard at evtv.me is implementing an interesting setup on his Mini
Clubman conversion. He built two homemade DC/DC converters out of Vicor
bricks he bought off Ebay. One converter is low power, set at 12.6V, and
is on all the time. The other is high power (1500W), set at 12.8V, and
comes on only when key is in ignition. He hopes to totally get rid of the
battery this way.

Bill

Original Message:
-----------------
From: nicklogan [hidden email]
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 06:35:00 -0800 (PST)
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] DC-DC

Mike,
I wanted to know if you found a satisfactory solution to this question
as I'm trying to do the same thing ( switch on an IOTA DLS55 from a 144V
battery pack when the ignition switch is turned on ). The answers in this
thread suggested several solutions. What did you end up doing?
Advice from others who have implemented a working solution to this
problem or can suggest parts/sources are also very welcome.

Thanks,

John Nicholson

Mike Boyles wrote:

>
> I am working on the wiring diagram for my conversion and I would like
> to know if I should disconnect the DC-DC Converter from the pack when
> the ignition key is turned off. I have seen circuits floating around
> showing it both ways. If so, can anyone suggest a source for a DPDT or
> DPST relay with a 12V coil for a 144V nominal pack?
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
>
> --
> MikeB2
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>

--
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http://old.nabble.com/DC-DC-tp20919204p26157109.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

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Bill Dennis

Re: DC-DC

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Mike Boyles

Bob Rice-2

Re: DC-DC

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by nicklogan

----- Original Message -----
From: "nicklogan" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] DC-DC

>
> Mike,
> I wanted to know if you found a satisfactory solution to this question
> as I'm trying to do the same thing ( switch on an IOTA DLS55 from a 144V
> battery pack when the ignition switch is turned on ). The answers in this
> thread suggested several solutions. What did you end up doing?
> Advice from others who have implemented a working solution to this
> problem or can suggest parts/sources are also very welcome.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John Nicholson
>

Hi John,an' EVerybody;

I just left my Sevcon DC to dc ON all the time, hooked it up and
forgotabout it! Every few years I break down and spend 20 bux on another
garden tracter battery from Wal*Mart, when they die. Now a Iota? Never had
one, although I'm gunna , as Mike O's S-10 born yesterday in my garage, has
an Iota and a 144 volt system? We haven't addressed this YET? Anybody ELSE?
Just leave it on or turn it off with the main contactor, when yur driving?
Sure easier to just hard wire it in and forget about it! Gotta hook THAT up
AND the Gast Vacuum pump, for SURE!! So ya don't need 600 lbs pedal pressure
to STOP! Details! Power steering would be nice too, but it isn't TOO bad,
now? But I'm used to my '78 Ford Van with twin I beam front end and
"Armstrong" power steering, it's all relative?

Seeya

Bob

>
>
> Mike Boyles wrote:
>>
>> I am working on the wiring diagram for my conversion and I would like
>> to know if I should disconnect the DC-DC Converter from the pack when
>> the ignition key is turned off. I have seen circuits floating around
>> showing it both ways. If so, can anyone suggest a source for a DPDT or
>> DPST relay with a 12V coil for a 144V nominal pack?
>>
>> Thanks for your help!
>>
>>
>> --
>> MikeB2
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
>> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://old.nabble.com/DC-DC-tp20919204p26157109.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
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>

Roland Wiench

DC-DC

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by nicklogan

Mike Boyles wrote:

I am working on the wiring diagram for my conversion and I would like to
know if I should disconnect the DC-DC Converter from the pack when the
ignition key is turned off. I have seen circuits floating around showing it
both ways. If so, can anyone suggest a source for a DPDT or DPST relay with
a 12V coil for a 144V nominal pack?

Thanks for your help!

MikeB2

Hello Mike,

If using a 12 volt accessory battery, then I disconnect every thing from the
main battery pack, the IOTA's, the battery charger and the main contactor
and controller. This prevents the higher charger voltage currents on all
these components.

I use two single pole contactors that are rate at least for the contact
voltage or at least 200 percent over the main battery pack voltage and 100
percent over the load rating.

You can get these contactors either from EV Source or EV Parts.

Now if you do not use a 12 volt accessory battery, then the converters have
to be on all the time, otherwise how is the ignition switch going to work.

Roland

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Adrian DeLeon

Re: DC-DC

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by nicklogan

I've used the KUEP 150V/10A relays ($20 + coil kickback diode + R/C
snubber circuit) on a 114V system and the LEV200 contactors on a 150V
system. Both have worked well with no issues. The $90 LEV200 is a bit
pricey, but a no-brainer for switching DC/DC converters and heater
elements. Small, light, no coil kickback, 300V+ operation, fully sealed,
etc. Install and forget!

Got both parts from evsource.com

The "Aux. Switching Kit" ($58) from KTA Services can also be used.

I'd also recommend wiring the DC/DC converter through a 110V plug & socket
combination (plug end on the DC/DC). Then you can operate the DC/DC by
itself using an extension cord, which is handy if you're still building
and working on the 12V system, want to leave your car stereo on for
extended periods, or just need to top off your 12V battery.

If you decide to leave the DC/DC connected all the time, at least wire it
so that it turns off with the main circuit breaker. Then if you don't use
your EV for more than a few days you can pull the breaker and not have the
DC/DC drain your traction battery.

-Adrian

>
> Mike,
> I wanted to know if you found a satisfactory solution to this
> question
> as I'm trying to do the same thing ( switch on an IOTA DLS55 from a 144V
> battery pack when the ignition switch is turned on ). The answers in this
> thread suggested several solutions. What did you end up doing?
> Advice from others who have implemented a working solution to this
> problem or can suggest parts/sources are also very welcome.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John Nicholson
>
>
>
>
> Mike Boyles wrote:
>>
>> I am working on the wiring diagram for my conversion and I would like
>> to know if I should disconnect the DC-DC Converter from the pack when
>> the ignition key is turned off. I have seen circuits floating around
>> showing it both ways. If so, can anyone suggest a source for a DPDT or
>> DPST relay with a 12V coil for a 144V nominal pack?
>>
>> Thanks for your help!
>>
>>
>> --
>> MikeB2
>>

nicklogan

Re: DC-DC

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Mike Boyles

John G. Lussmeyer wrote:
> Have you measured the idle current on the IOTA? I think it's pretty
> high so that you really do want to disconnect it when the vehicle is
> off.

I haven't measured it but others (Lee?) have and posted that it actually
only puts out about 45 amps, not 55. I was considering putting a relay
or contactor on each of the input lines from the 144v pack.

Bob Rice wrote:
> Just leave it on or turn it off with the main contactor, when yur
> driving?
> Sure easier to just hard wire it in and forget about it!
>

I don't want the current draw when EV is off and the Zilla 1K I have is
supposed to be fussy about having other devices hooked to the contactor
it controls.

Roland Wiench wrote:
> I use two single pole contactors that are rate at least for the
> contact
> voltage or at least 200 percent over the main battery pack voltage and
> 100
> percent over the load rating.

I actually have two Kilovac EV200 contactors wired to the Zilla
controller in series with a semiconductor fuse in between. The first
contactor is turned on by the ignition keyswitch and the other is
controlled by the Zilla to turn on current to the motor (Warp9). Would
the Zilla have a problem if the DC-DC input was also controlled by the
keyswitched contactor?

Thanks for your ideas, further comments would be appreciated.

John Nicholson

(Sorry about the wrong thread title on my previous post!)

> Original Message:
-----------------
From: nicklogan [hidden email]
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 06:35:00 -0800 (PST)
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] DC-DC

Mike,
I wanted to know if you found a satisfactory solution to this
question
as I'm trying to do the same thing ( switch on an IOTA DLS55 from a 144V
battery pack when the ignition switch is turned on ). The answers in
this
thread suggested several solutions. What did you end up doing?
Advice from others who have implemented a working solution to this
problem or can suggest parts/sources are also very welcome.

Thanks,

John Nicholson

Mike Boyles wrote:

cruisin

Re: DC-DC

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Mike Boyles

I have found that the BEST way to do this is to have a 12v battery for your regular functions with a Vicor DC-DC converter that keeps the battery charged to 12v all the time. Uses very little power and takes up no space. Most importantly, the output circuit is isolated from the traction power. This is very important when selecting a DC converter as most do not provide isolation. This is the circuit design I have used on all my EV and works best. Should anyone need more info email me at cruisin@live.com.

Mike Boyles wrote:

I am working on the wiring diagram for my conversion and I would like
to know if I should disconnect the DC-DC Converter from the pack when
the ignition key is turned off. I have seen circuits floating around
showing it both ways. If so, can anyone suggest a source for a DPDT or
DPST relay with a 12V coil for a 144V nominal pack?

Thanks for your help!

--
MikeB2

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Bob Rice-2

Re: DC-DC

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Adrian DeLeon

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian DeLeon" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] DC-DC

> I've used the KUEP 150V/10A relays ($20 + coil kickback diode + R/C
> snubber circuit) on a 114V system and the LEV200 contactors on a 150V
> system. Both have worked well with no issues. The $90 LEV200 is a bit
> pricey, but a no-brainer for switching DC/DC converters and heater
> elements. Small, light, no coil kickback, 300V+ operation, fully sealed,
> etc. Install and forget!
>
> Got both parts from evsource.com
>
> The "Aux. Switching Kit" ($58) from KTA Services can also be used.
>
> I'd also recommend wiring the DC/DC converter through a 110V plug & socket
> combination (plug end on the DC/DC). Then you can operate the DC/DC by
> itself using an extension cord, which is handy if you're still building
> and working on the 12V system, want to leave your car stereo on for
> extended periods, or just need to top off your 12V battery.
>
> If you decide to leave the DC/DC connected all the time, at least wire it
> so that it turns off with the main circuit breaker. Then if you don't use
> your EV for more than a few days you can pull the breaker and not have the
> DC/DC drain your traction battery.

Good Point! When I leave my EV any extended time; like going to the
Races in Portland, or a long weakend ,I just pull the main fuze. I shoulda
mentioned that in the same breath as hooking the DC to dc, and forgetting
about it? As I USE my EV EVery day, I don't worry about the probably
paricitic drain the DC to dc does on your traction pack? Or WHY you have
your TV and stuff, on an outlet strip to turn OFF, when yur not using it.As
you guyz MUST know the typical US~ian home has a vampire like Electrical
drain, because most appliances are NEVER really "off" and suck up power like
it was free.You "clean" up yur homes E- drain and you almost ride yur EV for
free.Yes, I use a clothsline, even!

Bob
>

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Elithion

Re: DC-DC

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Mike Boyles

Mike Boyles wrote:

should disconnect the DC-DC Converter from the pack when
the ignition key is turned off

Mike,
Your question comes up often. Please see:
http://liionbms.com/php/wp_ignition_conundrum.php

There are numerous circuit permutations for the power circuit. For a few of them, please see:
http://liionbms.com/php/ev_power_circuits.php

I hope it will help you think through solutions.
D'de

Davide Andrea
Elithion

Lee Hart

Re: DC-DC

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by John G. Lussmyer

John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> Have you measured the idle current on the IOTA? I think it's pretty
> high so that you really do want to disconnect it when the vehicle is
> off.

Yes, the ones I've measured are well over 20ma with zero load on the
output. If you connect a battery, this current goes up substantially
even if the battery is in float and charging at a trivial current.

--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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tomw

Re: DC-DC

Reply Threaded

In reply to this post by Mike Boyles

I bought one of the "no name" converters Cloud Electric sells and connected it to the pack through a Magnacraft ssr rated at 10A continuous and 27A surge, 3-32VDC input, 3-200VDC output. It appears to work fine from the few times I have tested it. No manufacturer name or documentation came with the DC/DC, but I found that it is produced by the same company that makes the Chinoz charger. I emailed them at the address on their website and they sent me a spec sheet the same day (China time). I was concerned that it might draw some current from the 12V battery when the vehicle was not in use so I asked if they recommend disconnecting it from the 12V battery when not in use. They do. So I've ordered yet another relay. They show a relay on the positive output only, so I bought an automotive SPST N.O. relay rated for 35A and 100A surge current (the converter puts out 30A, so I expect a bit over 3 A from my ~ 115V pack).

Tom

Mike Boyles wrote:

I am working on the wiring diagram for my conversion and I would like
to know if I should disconnect the DC-DC Converter from the pack when
the ignition key is turned off. I have seen circuits floating around
showing it both ways. If so, can anyone suggest a source for a DPDT or
DPST relay with a 12V coil for a 144V nominal pack?

Thanks for your help!

--
MikeB2

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evdesigner

Re: DC-DC

Reply Threaded

Who did you send your request to regarding the spec sheet?
I looked up Chinoz charger and they have the Delta Q copy,
http://www.fuzing.com/vli/003581c98338/battery-charge-for-electranic-vehicle
I didn't see any reference to the DC/DC converter.
Kelly does sell the DC/DC, but I didn't see any spec sheets,
https://www.kellycontroller.com/shop/?mod=cat&cat_id=10
I have the HWZ1-DC-DC, t:0512-58658678
Thanks,
Rod

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, tomw <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: tomw <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] DC-DC
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 9:34 AM
>
> I bought one of the "no name" converters Cloud Electric
> sells and connected
> it to the pack through a Magnacraft ssr rated at 10A
> continuous and 27A
> surge, 3-32VDC input, 3-200VDC output. It appears to work
> fine from the few
> times I have tested it. No manufacturer name or
> documentation came with the
> DC/DC, but I found that it is produced by the same company
> that makes the
> Chinoz charger. I emailed them at the address on
> their website and they
> sent me a spec sheet the same day (China time). I was
> concerned that it
> might draw some current from the 12V battery when the
> vehicle was not in use
> so I asked if they recommend disconnecting it from the 12V
> battery when not
> in use. They do. So I've ordered yet another
> relay. They show a relay on
> the positive output only, so I bought an automotive SPST
> N.O. relay rated
> for 35A and 100A surge current (the converter puts out 30A,
> so I expect a
> bit over 3 A from my ~ 115V pack).
>
> Tom
>
>
> Mike Boyles wrote:
> >
> > I am working on the wiring diagram for my conversion
> and I would like
> > to know if I should disconnect the DC-DC Converter
> from the pack when
> > the ignition key is turned off. I have seen circuits
> floating around
> > showing it both ways. If so, can anyone suggest a
> source for a DPDT or
> > DPST relay with a 12V coil for a 144V nominal pack?
> >
> > Thanks for your help!
> >
> >
> > --
> > MikeB2
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/DC-DC-tp463386p585876.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
> archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>

tomw

Re: DC-DC

Reply Threaded

http://www.hztiecheng.com/index.asp

evdesigner wrote:

Who did you send your request to regarding the spec sheet?
I looked up Chinoz charger and they have the Delta Q copy,
http://www.fuzing.com/vli/003581c98338/battery-charge-for-electranic-vehicle
I didn't see any reference to the DC/DC converter.
Kelly does sell the DC/DC, but I didn't see any spec sheets,
https://www.kellycontroller.com/shop/?mod=cat&cat_id=10
I have the HWZ1-DC-DC, t:0512-58658678
Thanks,
Rod

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, tomw <tomofreno2000@yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: tomw <tomofreno2000@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] DC-DC
> To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 9:34 AM
>
> I bought one of the "no name" converters Cloud Electric
> sells and connected
> it to the pack through a Magnacraft ssr rated at 10A
> continuous and 27A
> surge, 3-32VDC input, 3-200VDC output. It appears to work
> fine from the few
> times I have tested it. No manufacturer name or
> documentation came with the
> DC/DC, but I found that it is produced by the same company
> that makes the
> Chinoz charger. I emailed them at the address on
> their website and they
> sent me a spec sheet the same day (China time). I was
> concerned that it
> might draw some current from the 12V battery when the
> vehicle was not in use
> so I asked if they recommend disconnecting it from the 12V
> battery when not
> in use. They do. So I've ordered yet another
> relay. They show a relay on
> the positive output only, so I bought an automotive SPST
> N.O. relay rated
> for 35A and 100A surge current (the converter puts out 30A,
> so I expect a
> bit over 3 A from my ~ 115V pack).
>
> Tom
>
>
> Mike Boyles wrote:
> >
> > I am working on the wiring diagram for my conversion
> and I would like
> > to know if I should disconnect the DC-DC Converter
> from the pack when
> > the ignition key is turned off. I have seen circuits
> floating around
> > showing it both ways. If so, can anyone suggest a
> source for a DPDT or
> > DPST relay with a 12V coil for a 144V nominal pack?
> >
> > Thanks for your help!
> >
> >
> > --
> > MikeB2
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/DC-DC-tp463386p585876.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
> archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
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>

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Collin Kidder

DC battery charger

Reply Threaded

I've got a car with lithium ion batteries in a 370V pack. I've got a DC
converter to go from that to 13.5V for the normal car stuff. I'd like to
also put a 12V battery in as well to allow for better surge support,
running acc while the car is off, etc. My DC/DC converter is not meant
to be used as a battery charger. If I never let the 12V battery get very
low I could possibly cheat and just send 13.5V to the battery and let it
charge. But if the battery ever gets low it would overload the DC
converter. So, is there a good option (and hopefully cheap) option to
add a DC powered battery charger? (12V output. Amp output doesn't need
to be very high)

Part of the trouble is that 370V is quite high. Not very many DC
converters or 12V battery chargers support that sort of input.

I have thought about using diodes and a 6ohm power resistor to make a
sort of makeshift 2A charger and source isolation circuit. It'd be crude
but I think it's workable with only 2 power diodes and one power
resistor. Is there any reason such a simple solution to the problem
would be undesirable? I could draw something up real quick in a
schematic editor if it would help to visualize what I'm thinking of
doing here.

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