Dog food and panoramas (new Flash panorama viewer!)

[Matthew Rogers-2]

I censored the names as a joke in response to a post. Problem is most  
brits and yanks seem to have had a humour bypass. I do see what you're  
saying though, in this case just don't use the viewer. If  
photographers are so worried about losing work maybe their time might  
be better spent improving their own products and services. Plus  
there's nothing stopping you from making your own viewer or improving  
on Panosalado.

Matt

On 25 Jul 2008, at 12:54, bohonus wrote:

> --- In [hidden email], Matthew Rogers <matthew@...>  
> wrote:
> >
> > Oh My, someone trying to make money from panoramas, better call the
> > firing squad :(
>
> You are missing the point Matt, although considering that your  
> product forums (at
> 360Precision) at one time automatically censored the names of  
> competitor products if they
> were mentioned in postings made by users indicates you have an idea  
> what I am talking
> about.
>
> From a business sense, why would I present my work through a  
> panorama viewer that also
> promoted the website and services of another vr photographer?
>
> The "firing squad" in this case, would be non-use of such a viewer.
>
>
>

------------------------------------

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[bohonus]

--- In [hidden email], "Hans Nyberg" <hans@...> wrote:

> Both SpiV and DevalVR and  Immervision has links in the Controlbar or on loading bar to
> their sites which provides services for panoramas.

From looking at the VR images on FieldofView's site, clicking on the logo takes you to no
such page. Though it brings up an "About" window.

If you look at Immervision's site, it is not readily apparent what photography services they
provide. Mainly all pages regard their products.

The fact that both of these viewers require a fee to remove the branding exemplifies what
I am talking about.

Immervision's flash viewer however did not have the ability to remove the branding (when
I last tried it). This was brought up often in their forums.
 
> PangeaVR controlbar can be removed just use false for controlbar.

This is not readily apparent, though it is good to hear if you say that it can be done.

>Not sure about the info
> link in DevalVR.

Ah, not being much of a Windows user, I had overlooked DevalVR.

[bohonus]

--- In [hidden email], Matthew Rogers <matthew@...> wrote:
>
> I censored the names as a joke in response to a post. Problem is most  
> brits and yanks seem to have had a humour bypass. I do see what you're  
> saying though, in this case just don't use the viewer.

Precisely, I do not use a viewer under those conditions.

> If photographers are so worried about losing work maybe their time might  
> be better spent improving their own products and services. Plus  
> there's nothing stopping you from making your own viewer or improving  
> on Panosalado.

It is more of a concern that the viewer/user of the image might have the wrong impression
of who created the work they are looking at to begin with.

When the branding indicates a company that has no obvious connection to providing the
same type of work/services (like Quicktime, PTViewer) as the one creating the image, then
the user/viewer can determine that quite readily. However, if it points to an individual or
company that provides the exact same services, then it can create confusion.

Take for example, if you outsourced bubble levels for use on your panoramic heads- one
had a logo for "Acme Bubble Level Co" and one with a "Kaidan" logo, which would you use?

Or, more than likely- you would pick either one and just file the names off ;)

On the topic of panheads, the new multi-hole pin plate on the new Adjuste is a very
elegant solution that you know I can appreciate :) Patentable for you by any chance?

[Matthew Rogers-2]

We actually had a debate about an almost similar scenario at the  
IVPQTRAS (what ever it's called) meeting in Savannah. I just made a  
comment that I'd given up offering panoramic services as I didn't want  
to be in the position of quoting against my own customers which as  
unlikely as it seems would have happened. I was surprised that most  
people said it wouldn't really put them off buying our products if we  
also offered other panoramic services.

But you’re right, if Kaidan offered panoramic services I would have  
just bought a Manfrotto head. Although I do always recommend Manfrotto  
tripods :)

Matt

On 25 Jul 2008, at 13:34, bohonus wrote:

> --- In [hidden email], Matthew Rogers <matthew@...>  
> wrote:
> >
> > I censored the names as a joke in response to a post. Problem is  
> most
> > brits and yanks seem to have had a humour bypass. I do see what  
> you're
> > saying though, in this case just don't use the viewer.
>
> Precisely, I do not use a viewer under those conditions.
>
> > If photographers are so worried about losing work maybe their time  
> might
> > be better spent improving their own products and services. Plus
> > there's nothing stopping you from making your own viewer or  
> improving
> > on Panosalado.
>
> It is more of a concern that the viewer/user of the image might have  
> the wrong impression
> of who created the work they are looking at to begin with.
>
> When the branding indicates a company that has no obvious connection  
> to providing the
> same type of work/services (like Quicktime, PTViewer) as the one  
> creating the image, then
> the user/viewer can determine that quite readily. However, if it  
> points to an individual or
> company that provides the exact same services, then it can create  
> confusion.
>
> Take for example, if you outsourced bubble levels for use on your  
> panoramic heads- one
> had a logo for "Acme Bubble Level Co" and one with a "Kaidan" logo,  
> which would you use?
>
> Or, more than likely- you would pick either one and just file the  
> names off ;)
>
> On the topic of panheads, the new multi-hole pin plate on the new  
> Adjuste is a very
> elegant solution that you know I can appreciate :) Patentable for  
> you by any chance?

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[fierodeval]

The "info" Window of DevalVR shows a HTML page with "the version
number, and about...", but this page can be changed with a parameter
to open any other HTML page in the about popup.

regards!
fiero


--- In [hidden email], "bohonus" <bradford@...> wrote:
>
> --- In [hidden email], "Hans Nyberg" <hans@> wrote:
>
> > Both SpiV and DevalVR and  Immervision has links in the Controlbar
or on loading bar to
> > their sites which provides services for panoramas.
>
> From looking at the VR images on FieldofView's site, clicking on the
logo takes you to no
> such page. Though it brings up an "About" window.
>
> If you look at Immervision's site, it is not readily apparent what
photography services they
> provide. Mainly all pages regard their products.
>
> The fact that both of these viewers require a fee to remove the
branding exemplifies what
> I am talking about.
>
> Immervision's flash viewer however did not have the ability to
remove the branding (when
> I last tried it). This was brought up often in their forums.
>  
> > PangeaVR controlbar can be removed just use false for controlbar.
>
> This is not readily apparent, though it is good to hear if you say
that it can be done.
>
> >Not sure about the info
> > link in DevalVR.
>
> Ah, not being much of a Windows user, I had overlooked DevalVR.
>

[cheathamlane_360]

--- In [hidden email], aiwetir <aiwetir@...> wrote:
>
> no criticism here, just acknowledging the usual limits of flash 9  
> etc.  it looks as good or better than the rest and all i was saying is  
> i checked out the shimmer and wavy settings as i like to call them ;)

Ah, gotcha. Have to admit I'm a little touchy about the whole wavy
line and shimmer thing. Anybody notice? ;)
 
> and they seemed to work as expected in just a few seconds of playing.

Good to hear!

Cheers,

Patrick

[cheathamlane_360]

--- In [hidden email], "Juergen Schrader" <panorama@...>
wrote:
>
> great thing, pat, makes me want to come to berkeley and give you a
> hug :)

Hi Juergen:

A hug from afar is A-OK. ;)

> but:
> - same problem with opera here. in fullscreen no more movement or
> anything else. firefox is fine.

Hmmm. OK, Opera testing on the way. Would you or Roger mind posting an
'official' issue at panosalado.googlecode.com?

> - picture slows significantly down in fulls screen mode. ist it due
> to image size and/or quality settings?

Yes, probably a combination of both. The images in the example at
CheathamLane have cube faces which clock in at 500-700KB apiece. The
quality settings (precision, segments) definitely affect performance.
The more maths going on, the greater the performance hit.

> - and hey, congratulations for ineventing a cube with 7 cubefaces

Oh no!, did that reappear? Go figure, I can do some neat things, but
arithmetic isn't one of them. :-P

Cheers,

Patrick

[cheathamlane_360]

> > What is it? The only open source Flash panorama player on the, er,
> > market. "Open source" is often times a synonym for "free", no?. :)
>
> Well, almost ;-) There is fspp, too...

I stand corrected!

> Very good to hear! Would you (or someone else) create a small page on
> the Wiki? PanoSalado is listed on
> http://wiki.panotools.org/Panorama_Viewers#Free_3 but does not have a
> dedicated page yet...

Ah, OK -- I'll try to pop over there and do jsut that, unless someone
else wnats to run with that ball.

Cheers,

Patrick

PanoSalado:
http://flashpanos.com/blog/79

[cheathamlane_360]

> Most "free" viewers are promoting someone, Patrick is an advanced
flash coder and the
> viewer is of course a promotion of his services.
>
> Hans

Well, maybe in a roundabout fashion, Hans. Similar to how panoramas.dk
promotes Hans Nyberg, I think. All visible promotion in PanoSalado
points to PanoSalado's site. And, the "powered by panosalado" tagline
you see in the example is right there in the open source code, for the
removing. :)

I should note that PanoSalado's site, flashpanos.com, promotes all the
other viewers out there too (except fspp!, which i just learned about).

Cheers,

Patrick

PanoSalado:
http://flashpanos.com/blog/79

[aiwetir-2]

one thing to note about pangeavr, although i might let brian speak for  
himself, is that he stopped development on it.  the source code is  
available for free, although i'm not aware what it's license is, but  
if someone wanted to take it over and change the splash or links or  
even make them user configurable, i'm sure the community would welcome  
it.  personally i'd rather see devalvr ported to mac which is  
apparently in the works since before january this year.

[cheathamlane_360]

--- In [hidden email], "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...> wrote:

>
> Patrick,
>
> Is it deliberate that the full-screen display no longer responds to
> the zoom and pan options (and auto-rotate) but only inherts what
> had been selected when in the partial-screen mode?
>
> This is what I get with dual-core XP-pro and Opera 9.
>
> Roger W.

Hey Roger:

Just wanted to follow up. This is now Issue #2 with PanoSalado. :)

The way we're using Keyboard Events with PanoSalado ends up hitting Adobe's security
restrictions for Full Screen Mode. We're rewriting how we handle the buttons/keyboard, and this
should be fixed in a couple days. So, it's not an Opera issue (nor deliberate). :)

Thanks!, and

Cheers,

Patrick

PanoSalado:
http://flashpanos.com/blog/79

[Erik Krause]

Hans Nyberg wrote:

Talking about free players, why are you listing PangeaVR as Commercial.

Well, it wasn't me who put it there and I don't know why it got there. I can't use it since I don't own a Mac. If you think it's not ok, simply change it. It's a wiki after all...

best regards

[Roger D. Williams]

Thanks for the update, Patrick. I really liked what I saw...

Roger W.


On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 00:23:31 +0900, Patrick Cheatham  
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> --- In [hidden email], "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...>  
> wrote:
>>
>> Patrick,
>>
>> Is it deliberate that the full-screen display no longer responds to
>> the zoom and pan options (and auto-rotate) but only inherts what
>> had been selected when in the partial-screen mode?
>>
>> This is what I get with dual-core XP-pro and Opera 9.
>>
>> Roger W.
>
> Hey Roger:
>
> Just wanted to follow up. This is now Issue #2 with PanoSalado. :)
>
> The way we're using Keyboard Events with PanoSalado ends up hitting  
> Adobe's security
> restrictions for Full Screen Mode. We're rewriting how we handle the  
> buttons/keyboard, and this
> should be fixed in a couple days. So, it's not an Opera issue (nor  
> deliberate). :)

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