GM reacts to the WWU EV1 Resurrection.

[Lightning Ryan]

Enjoyed the EV1 at last month's meeting? Good, because it may be
the last time you ever see it running again. GM has already sent a
cease and desist order to WWU and threatened legal action if they
ever see video or hear of it running as a "non-hybrid" electric again.

http://www.seattleeva.org/wiki/GM_EV1_WWU_Resurrection#GM_Reacts

L8r
 Ryan

PS. Feel free to add your own comments, corrections, or resources.

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[Dan Frederiksen-2]

very interesting. I've written to GM communications for verification and
comment on their actions. let's see if they respond

Dan

Lightning Ryan wrote:

> Enjoyed the EV1 at last month's meeting? Good, because it may be
> the last time you ever see it running again. GM has already sent a
> cease and desist order to WWU and threatened legal action if they
> ever see video or hear of it running as a "non-hybrid" electric again.
>
> http://www.seattleeva.org/wiki/GM_EV1_WWU_Resurrection#GM_Reacts
>
> L8r
>  Ryan
>
> PS. Feel free to add your own comments, corrections, or resources.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>  

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[Bob Rice-2]

   Hi EVerybody;

   I'm not surprised that General Murders would react that way! My question
is why it took them so long<g>?EVery running EV-1 is a slap in their face.
Hell! They have the best lawyers on the planet, and deep enough pockets to
run them. All ther terms of donated EV-1's existance was burned into our
memories, a few years ago. About the only thing you MIGHT be able to do with
dead one would be to pull a mold off it and copy it. Engineering your own
chassis and suspension (Morning Lee Hart!)OUR Lee, DOING something along
these lines.A Sunrise, in captivity, in MN!

   Probably IF you copied it GM would sue you for using their "style"?
Wasn't Harlie Davidson sueing a Japanese Bike Builder because  theirs
SOUNDED like a Harlie?Frankly I'm impressed that the Schools had the sheer
BALLS to get an EV-1 running and I'm glad to see publicity on line and maybe
a little in the press. Magazines sure aren't gunna risk those multiple page
SUV ads, space$$$!!

  Some thinking American Sheeple will see all this going on, as WKtEC has
gone ,mainstream. I'm taking a copy up to a little Ma and Pa deli to do show
an' tell, this AM. The show goes on, the song" No biz like Show Business"
comes to mind. For if we don't do it, who will.Most of us have kids and
Grandkids, were doing this; slashed ,bashed ,dirty hands, holey clothes, for
them, thank God, or the Diety of your choice, that you still can.The
U.S.Constitution is still in effect, I THINK??

   Down from my battery box(soap) But ya DID rattle my cage, below. Now back
to the important stuff. Hub Motors, Battery stuff, Cursit controllers.

   Seeya

   Bob

     "If you don't believe you'll make a difference, then you probably never
will"  J.Husted.

     " Be the Change You want to see in the World"; another famous guy;
Ghandi
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lightning Ryan" <[hidden email]>
To: "EVDL" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 8:37 AM
Subject: [EVDL] GM reacts to the WWU EV1 Resurrection.

> Enjoyed the EV1 at last month's meeting? Good, because it may be
> the last time you ever see it running again. GM has already sent a
> cease and desist order to WWU and threatened legal action if they
> ever see video or hear of it running as a "non-hybrid" electric again.
>
> http://www.seattleeva.org/wiki/GM_EV1_WWU_Resurrection#GM_Reacts
>
> L8r
> Ryan
>
> PS. Feel free to add your own comments, corrections, or resources.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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> 9/22/2007 1:27 PM
>
>

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[Hi-Torque Electric]

--- Lightning Ryan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Enjoyed the EV1 at last month's meeting? Good,
> because it may be
> the last time you ever see it running again. GM has
> already sent a
> cease and desist order to WWU and threatened legal
> action if they
> ever see video or hear of it running as a
> "non-hybrid" electric again.

Hey all

I've never seen the actual contract but I was informed
by Missouri-Rolla that the EV-1 they have was never to
be driven on the streets.  When I saw the you tube
video of it prowling the streets I have to admit that
I cringed a bit.  I didn't want to say anything and
add any bad mojo, but I kind of felt this was coming.

Now I just read something about their not suppossed to
have any public showings, What's that all about?  I
mean heck, get two people looking at the damn thing
and it could be considered a "public exibition".

Anyway thanks for the heads up as I will forward this
to Missoui-Rolla so they don't create any issues for
themselves!  I mean I knew it'd be a caged animal, but
I didn't know it was a 6 X 10 cell with absolutly no
room to move!  This is in fact a very sad day for the
US and it's ruling companies, as you'd think they
could show a little grace and just suffer through a
small back eye!  FWIW, I think it'll be a long long
time before I EVer buy anything from GM, EVen if it is
a pure electric!
Piss on them!  I might have to make one of those
Kalvin stickers with the stream shooting onto a GM
logo, hehe!
Best wishes to the team and students!  Is there a
petition that folks like us can go to show support!
Probably wouldn't matter but I'd sign it in an attempt
to stand for justice.

Truly a bummer state of affairs

Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

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[Dan Frederiksen-2]

I just got a response from GM.

Chris Preuss (GM) didn't know anything about any legal reactions but
asked a coworker Dave Barthmuss to comment and he wrote me this:

"No legal threats at all.  I know what our reaction was to the Western
Washington University's vehicle being trucked to LA and making a brief
drive at a local enviro envent and in no way did it involve and threat
of litigation."


I'll dig deeper.
if someone is on the WWU end can they check what their side of the story
is? if the GM reaction is just a complete fabrication or if we have
actual controversy.

Dan

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[Ben-149]

On Dec 21, 2007 11:00 AM, Dan Frederiksen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> "No legal threats at all.  I know what our reaction was to the Western
> Washington University's vehicle being trucked to LA and making a brief
> drive at a local enviro envent and in no way did it involve and threat
> of litigation."


Probably not so much conspiracy as a carefully worded response.
Depending on the contract, perhaps they simply threatened to take the
vehicle away? Or maybe they don't consider a cease & desist as a
"threat of litigation." Only people who really know are WWU and GM's
lawyers.

Ben

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[gottdi]

Why speculate? The media does a fine job with that as it is. Wait  
till you hear it from the Horses mouth then decide. I really hate  
speculation. You should too.


On Dec 21, 2007, at 9:34 AM, Ben wrote:

> On Dec 21, 2007 11:00 AM, Dan Frederiksen  
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> "No legal threats at all.  I know what our reaction was to the  
>> Western
>> Washington University's vehicle being trucked to LA and making a  
>> brief
>> drive at a local enviro envent and in no way did it involve and  
>> threat
>> of litigation."
>
>
> Probably not so much conspiracy as a carefully worded response.
> Depending on the contract, perhaps they simply threatened to take the
> vehicle away? Or maybe they don't consider a cease & desist as a
> "threat of litigation." Only people who really know are WWU and GM's
> lawyers.
>
> Ben
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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[Mike.B]

I just hope someone archives any and all video of the
restored EV1, and anything that does go on, so that it
can get out to the media afterwards........ Then for
sure, GM will be seen as the Jack**S that they really
are.

Maybe, we can get a sequel to the "WKTEC", with this
additional event, if it is actually happening.



--- [hidden email] wrote:

> Why speculate? The media does a fine job with that
> as it is. Wait  
> till you hear it from the Horses mouth then decide.
> I really hate  
> speculation. You should too.
>
>
> On Dec 21, 2007, at 9:34 AM, Ben wrote:
>
> > On Dec 21, 2007 11:00 AM, Dan Frederiksen  
> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> "No legal threats at all.  I know what our
> reaction was to the  
> >> Western
> >> Washington University's vehicle being trucked to
> LA and making a  
> >> brief
> >> drive at a local enviro envent and in no way did
> it involve and  
> >> threat
> >> of litigation."
> >
> >
> > Probably not so much conspiracy as a carefully
> worded response.
> > Depending on the contract, perhaps they simply
> threatened to take the
> > vehicle away? Or maybe they don't consider a cease
> & desist as a
> > "threat of litigation." Only people who really
> know are WWU and GM's
> > lawyers.
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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[mos6507-2]

GM's dickheadedness knows no bounds.

----- Original Message ----

Enjoyed the EV1 at last month's meeting? Good, because it may be
the last time you ever see it running again. GM has already sent a
cease and desist order to WWU and threatened legal action if they
ever see video or hear of it running as a "non-hybrid" electric again.

http://www.seattleeva.org/wiki/GM_EV1_WWU_Resurrection#GM_Reacts



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[kenscircus]

Thanks, Dan.  Good work!

It is always best to confirm before deploying the lynch mob!

Ken



-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Frederiksen <[hidden email]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Sent: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:00 am
Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM reacts to the WWU EV1 Resurrection. (or did they)



I just got a response from GM.

Chris Preuss (GM) didn't know anything about any legal reactions but
asked a coworker Dave Barthmuss to comment and he wrote me this:

"No legal threats at all. I know what our reaction was to the Western
Washington University's vehicle being trucked to LA and making a brief
drive at a local enviro envent and in no way did it involve and threat
of litigation."


I'll dig deeper.
if someone is on the WWU end can they check what their side of the
story
is? if the GM reaction is just a complete fabrication or if we have
actual controversy.

Dan

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[gottdi]

i have a copy of the video for safe keeping.

:  )




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[Roderick Wilde]

I just spoke with Eric from the WWU EV1 resurrection team. He stated that
they have not been threatened with a lawsuit. They did receive a phone call
from GM reminding them of the agreement they signed when they received the
gift not to run the car on any public or private road . They also mentioned
that part of the agreement was not to mar GM's image. So It appears that
Dave Barthmuss of GM was telling the truth when he stated: "No legal threats
at all.  I know what our reaction was to the Western
Washington University's vehicle being trucked to LA and making a brief drive
at a local enviro event and in no way did it involve and threat of
litigation." Anyway, I thought I would look into the truth of this matter a
little more and squelch a possible fire storm against our buddies at GM ;-)


Roderick Wilde


----- Original Message -----
From: <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM reacts to the WWU EV1 Resurrection. (or did they)

> Thanks, Dan.  Good work!
>
> It is always best to confirm before deploying the lynch mob!
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan Frederiksen <[hidden email]>
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:00 am
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM reacts to the WWU EV1 Resurrection. (or did they)
>
>
>
> I just got a response from GM.
>
> Chris Preuss (GM) didn't know anything about any legal reactions but
> asked a coworker Dave Barthmuss to comment and he wrote me this:
>
> "No legal threats at all. I know what our reaction was to the Western
> Washington University's vehicle being trucked to LA and making a brief
> drive at a local enviro envent and in no way did it involve and threat
> of litigation."
>
>
> I'll dig deeper.
> if someone is on the WWU end can they check what their side of the
> story
> is? if the GM reaction is just a complete fabrication or if we have
> actual controversy.
>
> Dan
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
> http://webmail.aol.com
>
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>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.5/1190 - Release Date:
> 12/19/2007 7:37 PM
>
>

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[Dan Frederiksen-2]

good. that sounds like it is true. I'll innocently ask Barthmuss why
they feel the need to keep the EV1 off the road.
just have to find a way to word it such he wont just lie that it's to
avoid being sued for missing parts or similar.

I asked him what their reaction was then if it wasn't a threat of
litigation. he gave me this line of smelly liquid:

"That we continue to appreciate and recognize the passion and enthusiasm
for electric vehicle technology, and hope that the issues we face today
in terms of energy security and the like will encourage hundreds of
thousand if not millions of consumers to consider purchasing or leasing
our EFlex extended range electric system as illustrated by the Chevy
Volt when it is ready for prime time."

I then asked him if GM in any way contacted WWU about the public showing
of the EV1 and what the intent was of that communication. let's see what
he says next if anything. having considerable experience pushing people
that are wrong but not willing to admit it I expect we are reaching the
end of his patience though, where he will lock up and start blaming me
for various things as a way to avoid the uncomfortable truth. 2-3 emails
more at best. he would like to not have to answer me anymore at all but
the appearance of ducking such a pertinent question gnaws at him and he
will likely feel obligated to answer. but his mind will be racing to
find a way to get out of this situation even though it is not a
conscious effort.
the fascinating and terribly foolish state of humanity.

Dan


Roderick Wilde wrote:

> I just spoke with Eric from the WWU EV1 resurrection team. He stated that
> they have not been threatened with a lawsuit. They did receive a phone call
> from GM reminding them of the agreement they signed when they received the
> gift not to run the car on any public or private road . They also mentioned
> that part of the agreement was not to mar GM's image. So It appears that
> Dave Barthmuss of GM was telling the truth when he stated: "No legal threats
> at all.  I know what our reaction was to the Western
> Washington University's vehicle being trucked to LA and making a brief drive
> at a local enviro event and in no way did it involve and threat of
> litigation." Anyway, I thought I would look into the truth of this matter a
> little more and squelch a possible fire storm against our buddies at GM ;-)
>
>
> Roderick Wilde
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 10:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM reacts to the WWU EV1 Resurrection. (or did they)
>
>
>  
>> Thanks, Dan.  Good work!
>>
>> It is always best to confirm before deploying the lynch mob!
>>
>> Ken
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dan Frederiksen <[hidden email]>
>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:00 am
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM reacts to the WWU EV1 Resurrection. (or did they)
>>
>>
>>
>> I just got a response from GM.
>>
>> Chris Preuss (GM) didn't know anything about any legal reactions but
>> asked a coworker Dave Barthmuss to comment and he wrote me this:
>>
>> "No legal threats at all. I know what our reaction was to the Western
>> Washington University's vehicle being trucked to LA and making a brief
>> drive at a local enviro envent and in no way did it involve and threat
>> of litigation."
>>
>>
>> I'll dig deeper.
>> if someone is on the WWU end can they check what their side of the
>> story
>> is? if the GM reaction is just a complete fabrication or if we have
>> actual controversy.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________________________________________
>> More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
>> http://webmail.aol.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.5/1190 - Release Date:
>> 12/19/2007 7:37 PM
>>
>>
>>    
>
> _______________________________________________
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>  

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[Lee Hart]

Bob Rice wrote:
> I'm not surprised that General Murders would react that way! My question
> is why it took them so long <g>?

> About the only thing you MIGHT be able to do with dead one would be to
> pull a mold off it and copy it. Engineering your own chassis and
> suspension (Morning Lee Hart!) OUR Lee, DOING something along these
> lines. A Sunrise, in captivity, in MN!

I hear you, Bob. In fact, I *did* try to find an EV1 to copy, but wasn't
able to get my hands on one. Then the Sunrise opportunity came along, so
I've been putting my effort into cloning it.

> Probably IF you copied it GM would sue you for using their "style"?

Possibly, but not likely. Judging from my experience with the Sunrise
EV2, anyone copying the EV1 would automatically make changes and
improvements that would alter the design enough to avoid this. For
instance, many original parts were custom and aren't available; so the
copy will have to use substitutes.

However, GM lawyers could bankrupt a small company from the legal costs
of defending themselves against even frivolous lawsuits.

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

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[Charles Whalen]

IIRC, I believe Brigham Young University has run their supercap-powered EV1
down dragstrips around the country for a couple of years now, including at
PoDC in Hagerstown, as I recall.  I would think that a dragstrip could be
considered a "private road", and in addition to that, is certainly a very
public setting.  Does anyone know if BYU has ever received such a phone call
from GM anytime in the last couple years reminding them of the same
agreement that *they* signed with GM when GM gave them the car as a gift?

Charles Whalen


----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM reacts to the WWU EV1 Resurrection. (or did they)

>I just spoke with Eric from the WWU EV1 resurrection team. He stated that
>they have not been threatened with a lawsuit. They did receive a phone call
>from GM reminding them of the agreement they signed when they received the
>gift not to run the car on any public or private road . They also mentioned
>that part of the agreement was not to mar GM's image. So It appears that
>Dave Barthmuss of GM was telling the truth when he stated: "No legal
>threats at all.  I know what our reaction was to the Western
> Washington University's vehicle being trucked to LA and making a brief
> drive at a local enviro event and in no way did it involve and threat of
> litigation." Anyway, I thought I would look into the truth of this matter
> a little more and squelch a possible fire storm against our buddies at GM
> ;-)
>
>
> Roderick Wilde
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 10:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM reacts to the WWU EV1 Resurrection. (or did they)
>
>
>> Thanks, Dan.  Good work!
>>
>> It is always best to confirm before deploying the lynch mob!
>>
>> Ken
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dan Frederiksen <[hidden email]>
>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:00 am
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM reacts to the WWU EV1 Resurrection. (or did they)
>>
>>
>>
>> I just got a response from GM.
>>
>> Chris Preuss (GM) didn't know anything about any legal reactions but
>> asked a coworker Dave Barthmuss to comment and he wrote me this:
>>
>> "No legal threats at all. I know what our reaction was to the Western
>> Washington University's vehicle being trucked to LA and making a brief
>> drive at a local enviro envent and in no way did it involve and threat
>> of litigation."
>>
>>
>> I'll dig deeper.
>> if someone is on the WWU end can they check what their side of the
>> story
>> is? if the GM reaction is just a complete fabrication or if we have
>> actual controversy.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________________________________________
>> More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
>> http://webmail.aol.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.5/1190 - Release Date:
>> 12/19/2007 7:37 PM
>>
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>
>
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[Robert MacDowell]

Liability.  They're an automaker, and I'll bet that changes their
product liability picture *dramatically* as compared to you and I.

What's more this is a completely NEW car with totally new technologies
no one had built before.  They weren't just slapping Optimas and a Zilla
into a Camaro.  Most of the features on this car, nobody knew how this
stuff would age.  Would the frame deteriorate over time and shatter on a
pothole on the 101?  Would corrosion in the controller cause traction
current to be exposed to the driver?  What if a future owner took one to
road-salt country?  Nobody knew.   This car is a wild weasel of
liability risk.

So cut GM some slack on this one.  What a horrid day for EVs if one was
publicly involved in a freak accident!

Now the EV1 race car is a different thing.  People expect race cars to
explode in a ball of flames.  Nobody sues Ford when a Mustang dragster
blows up because the racer is expected to modify every aspect of the
vehicle for racing.  Plus I believe this donation was prior to the
others (Sept. 2002)?


Robert




Charles Whalen wrote:

> IIRC, I believe Brigham Young University has run their supercap-powered EV1
> down dragstrips around the country for a couple of years now, including at
> PoDC in Hagerstown, as I recall.  I would think that a dragstrip could be
> considered a "private road", and in addition to that, is certainly a very
> public setting.  Does anyone know if BYU has ever received such a phone call
> from GM anytime in the last couple years reminding them of the same
> agreement that *they* signed with GM when GM gave them the car as a gift?
>
> Charles Whalen
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roderick Wilde" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 2:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM reacts to the WWU EV1 Resurrection. (or did they)
>
>> I just spoke with Eric from the WWU EV1 resurrection team. He stated that
>> they have not been threatened with a lawsuit. They did receive a phone call
>>from GM reminding them of the agreement they signed when they received the
>> gift not to run the car on any public or private road . They also mentioned
>> that part of the agreement was not to mar GM's image. So It appears that
>> Dave Barthmuss of GM was telling the truth when he stated: "No legal
>> threats at all.  I know what our reaction was to the Western
>> Washington University's vehicle being trucked to LA and making a brief
>> drive at a local enviro event and in no way did it involve and threat of
>> litigation." Anyway, I thought I would look into the truth of this matter
>> a little more and squelch a possible fire storm against our buddies at GM
>> ;-)
>>
>>
>> Roderick Wilde
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <[hidden email]>
>> To: <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 10:37 AM
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM reacts to the WWU EV1 Resurrection. (or did they)
>>
>>
>>> Thanks, Dan.  Good work!
>>>
>>> It is always best to confirm before deploying the lynch mob!
>>>
>>> Ken
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Dan Frederiksen <[hidden email]>
>>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
>>> Sent: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:00 am
>>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM reacts to the WWU EV1 Resurrection. (or did they)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I just got a response from GM.
>>>
>>> Chris Preuss (GM) didn't know anything about any legal reactions but
>>> asked a coworker Dave Barthmuss to comment and he wrote me this:
>>>
>>> "No legal threats at all. I know what our reaction was to the Western
>>> Washington University's vehicle being trucked to LA and making a brief
>>> drive at a local enviro envent and in no way did it involve and threat
>>> of litigation."
>>>
>>>
>>> I'll dig deeper.
>>> if someone is on the WWU end can they check what their side of the
>>> story
>>> is? if the GM reaction is just a complete fabrication or if we have
>>> actual controversy.
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.5/1190 - Release Date:
>>> 12/19/2007 7:37 PM
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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[Charles Whalen]

Not any more than it does for, say, ... hhhmmm ... how about Toyota?, for
example, ... which produced the RAV4-EV at the same time that GM produced
the EV1.  Only difference being that I happen to own two RAV4-EVs, along
with 337 other RAV4-EVs also privately owned and operated as daily drivers,
compared to exactly none in the case of the EV1.  Why?  Because Toyota
decided to take all of those kind of liability risks that you speak of,
arising out of all of those unknowns and uncertainties you mentioned,
whereas GM did not.

> What a horrid day for EVs if one was publicly involved in a freak
> accident!

Hhhmm, ... somehow I don't think so.  RAV4-EVs are, unfortunately,
occasionally involved in accidents (just like any other make and model of
car), some pretty bad in which the insurance companies have made initial
determinations to "total" the car.  ... "A horrid day for EVs"?  No, not by
any stretch of the imagination.  ... A horrid day for that particular
RAV4-EV owner?  Yes, absolutely!  That it is not "a horrid day for EVs" is
evidenced by the fact that you and most others on this particular list have
probably never even heard of such accidents, which however are discussed on
the RAV4-EV list.  There is enough overlap of subscribers between the two
lists, but I have never seen anyone come running over from the RAV4-EV list
to the EVDL making a big deal about a RAV4-EV accident and exclaiming "what
a horrid day for EVs".

None of which, however, is very relevant to nor answers the simple question
I asked.

Charles Whalen


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert MacDowell" <[hidden email]>
To: "Charles Whalen" <[hidden email]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion
List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM reacts to the WWU EV1 Resurrection. (or did they)

> Liability.  They're an automaker, and I'll bet that changes their product
> liability picture *dramatically* as compared to you and I.
>
> What's more this is a completely NEW car with totally new technologies no
> one had built before.  They weren't just slapping Optimas and a Zilla into
> a Camaro.  Most of the features on this car, nobody knew how this stuff
> would age.  Would the frame deteriorate over time and shatter on a pothole
> on the 101?  Would corrosion in the controller cause traction current to
> be exposed to the driver?  What if a future owner took one to road-salt
> country?  Nobody knew.   This car is a wild weasel of liability risk.
>
> So cut GM some slack on this one.  What a horrid day for EVs if one was
> publicly involved in a freak accident!
>
> Now the EV1 race car is a different thing.  People expect race cars to
> explode in a ball of flames.  Nobody sues Ford when a Mustang dragster
> blows up because the racer is expected to modify every aspect of the
> vehicle for racing.  Plus I believe this donation was prior to the others
> (Sept. 2002)?
>
>
> Robert
>
>
>
>
> Charles Whalen wrote:
>> IIRC, I believe Brigham Young University has run their supercap-powered
>> EV1
>> down dragstrips around the country for a couple of years now, including
>> at
>> PoDC in Hagerstown, as I recall.  I would think that a dragstrip could be
>> considered a "private road", and in addition to that, is certainly a very
>> public setting.  Does anyone know if BYU has ever received such a phone
>> call
>> from GM anytime in the last couple years reminding them of the same
>> agreement that *they* signed with GM when GM gave them the car as a gift?
>>
>> Charles Whalen
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Roderick Wilde" <[hidden email]>
>> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 2:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM reacts to the WWU EV1 Resurrection. (or did they)
>>
>>> I just spoke with Eric from the WWU EV1 resurrection team. He stated
>>> that
>>> they have not been threatened with a lawsuit. They did receive a phone
>>> call
>>>from GM reminding them of the agreement they signed when they received
>>>the
>>> gift not to run the car on any public or private road . They also
>>> mentioned
>>> that part of the agreement was not to mar GM's image. So It appears that
>>> Dave Barthmuss of GM was telling the truth when he stated: "No legal
>>> threats at all.  I know what our reaction was to the Western
>>> Washington University's vehicle being trucked to LA and making a brief
>>> drive at a local enviro event and in no way did it involve and threat of
>>> litigation." Anyway, I thought I would look into the truth of this
>>> matter
>>> a little more and squelch a possible fire storm against our buddies at
>>> GM
>>> ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>> Roderick Wilde
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: <[hidden email]>
>>> To: <[hidden email]>
>>> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 10:37 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM reacts to the WWU EV1 Resurrection. (or did they)
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thanks, Dan.  Good work!
>>>>
>>>> It is always best to confirm before deploying the lynch mob!
>>>>
>>>> Ken
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Dan Frederiksen <[hidden email]>
>>>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
>>>> Sent: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:00 am
>>>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM reacts to the WWU EV1 Resurrection. (or did
>>>> they)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I just got a response from GM.
>>>>
>>>> Chris Preuss (GM) didn't know anything about any legal reactions but
>>>> asked a coworker Dave Barthmuss to comment and he wrote me this:
>>>>
>>>> "No legal threats at all. I know what our reaction was to the Western
>>>> Washington University's vehicle being trucked to LA and making a brief
>>>> drive at a local enviro envent and in no way did it involve and threat
>>>> of litigation."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'll dig deeper.
>>>> if someone is on the WWU end can they check what their side of the
>>>> story
>>>> is? if the GM reaction is just a complete fabrication or if we have
>>>> actual controversy.
>>>>
>>>> Dan
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> For subscription options, see
>>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________________________________________________
>>>> More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
>>>> http://webmail.aol.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> For subscription options, see
>>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.5/1190 - Release Date:
>>>> 12/19/2007 7:37 PM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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>

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[Lightning Ryan]

This is the official response from Eric, the VRI director:
 "We did not receive a "Cease and Decist" order. We did receive
  a phone call from a GM representative pointing out to us that
  the vehicle is not to be licensed, titled or operated on any public
  or private road or highway. We are allowed to exhibit the vehicle.
  The GM representative said that it was fine for us to turn the
  vehicle into a series hybrid vehicle, similar to the Volt concept car.
        Sincerely,
        Eric Leonhardt
        Director
        Vehicle Research Institute
        Engineering Technology Department
        Western Washington University"

I've updated the page to reflect this latest information.
http://www.seattleeva.org/wiki/GM_EV1_WWU_Resurrection#GM_Reacts
I still think the 8 videos above this section are worth watching.

I must apologize for the misleading nature of my original post which
made the assertion that legal action had already been initiated.

I believe that I had worded the article far more carefully, quoting
a comment made at YouTube regarding the "Cease and Decist".  I also
mentioned that there *may* have been legal action towards Madison UW.
Both of these should obviously be taken with a grain of salt until
they are verified, which apparently the former has been proved false.
Still, GM did contact WWU, to gently remind them of their contract
and to express their disappointment in the videos which were posted.

I still find it ironic that it's not the crushing of a small fleet
of EV1's which were loved by their drivers that tarnishes the GM
image, but rather video of the cars being driven on roads when
a group of university student restores one which mars GMs image.

Last but not least is the hint of the gen3 EV1, a four seat series
hybrid.  The hype surrounding the Volt seems seriously misplaced
when GM had identical technology a decade earlier and threw it away.

L8r
 Ryan

ps. We seriously hope that GM proves us all wrong and gets the Volt
and other E-Flex vehicles in dealers very soon, but many of us are
reserving our enthusiasm until that actually comes to fruition.

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[MrGoFast99]

In a message dated 12/21/2007 12:29:02 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
[hidden email] writes:

> I then asked him if GM in any way contacted WWU about the public  showing
> of the EV1 and what the intent was of that communication. let's  see what
> he says next if anything. having considerable experience  pushing people
> that are wrong but not willing to admit it I expect we  are reaching the
> end of his patience though, where he will lock up and  start blaming me
> for various things as a way to avoid the uncomfortable  truth. 2-3 emails
> more at best. he would like to not have to answer me  anymore at all but
> the appearance of ducking such a pertinent question  gnaws at him and he
> will likely feel obligated to answer. but his mind  will be racing to
> find a way to get out of this situation even though  it is not a
> conscious effort.
> the fascinating and terribly  foolish state of humanity.
>
> Dan

 
------------
 
Dan, you really like to needle people don't you????
 
Keep us posted with the answer.
 
Jim
 



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[Dan Frederiksen-2]

[hidden email] wrote:
> Dan, you really like to needle people don't you????
>  
> Keep us posted with the answer.
>  
> Jim
>  
who knows why we do as we do but I guess you could say I am driven and
like justice. I shine the light of truth and sometimes I leave it on for
longer than the darkness likes. According to Jesus I am not supposed to
do that but it's a hard lesson for me to learn that people can't be
enlightened by 'force'.

Although I recognize it and anticipate it, I can't understand why
someone can't recognize the obvious truth, like for instance the GM
press people can't admit to themselves that they killed the EV1. can you
understand how they can't know that?

Dave Barthmuss (GM) stalled for a few hours and then sent me an
automessage saying 'not here, out for christmas holliday, won't be back
until jan 1'
Chris Preuss (GM) said that I need to 'get some perspective' and that I
should enjoy the hollidays

however bizarre, it's important to realize that they don't consciously
lie. they don't know they are liars. someone once said it's hard to make
a man understand when his job depends on him not understanding.

what Dave also doesn't realize is that I will be with him again on
january 1st :) there is a very small chance that if I make him say that
they did contact WWU that he will see his action for what it is. but it
has to be a big pill to swallow to admit to yourself that you are a bad
guy. but worth it if he can.

the truth sets us free.

Dan


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