Gizmo Gearing

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Tom Gocze

Gizmo Gearing

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I had a a couple Gizmos. One was quite early and the other was fairly  
recent. They both were geared at about 6:1.
They both seemed to have the right balance for starting and running  
at top speed (~40mph).
Tom

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ed.cooley

Gizmo...Doran-mo...Sparrow-mo...

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Anyone made an electric Doran?
After I get my a** in gear and finish my truck, I want to build a small
low-profile 3-wheeled electric...

The BugEV is a little too light-weight, though I thought about it... and
the Doran seems too big, and I don't know anything about fiberglass.

If the BugEV were heavier....

Suggestions?

I'm waiting on the XR-3, but that from the pictures I've seen, RQR hasn't
finished the design yet (major structural change from earlier pictures
I've seen)...

Moreover, it looks like with a diesel engine + lithium batteries - that
it's going to be an expensive undertaking.

Is there anything out there thats electric, around $5k, 3-wheeled-tadpole
design?

Used Sparrows requiring refurbishment, perhaps?

Thanks, Best Regards....


Ed Cooley





Tom Gocze <[hidden email]>
Sent by: [hidden email]
08/29/2007 14:45
Please respond to
Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>


To
Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
cc

Subject
[EVDL] Gizmo Gearing






I had a a couple Gizmos. One was quite early and the other was fairly
recent. They both were geared at about 6:1.
They both seemed to have the right balance for starting and running
at top speed (~40mph).
Tom

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Ralph Merwin-2

Re: Gizmo...Doran-mo...Sparrow-mo...

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Ed,

Check out these electric Dorans on evalbum.com:

http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/559
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/243

You might look into the Vortex (another hand-built 3-wheeler), although
I didn't see any on the album.  There is an active Vortex group on Yahoo:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vortex3wheeler/

Ralph


[hidden email] writes:

>
> Anyone made an electric Doran?
> After I get my a** in gear and finish my truck, I want to build a small
> low-profile 3-wheeled electric...
>
> The BugEV is a little too light-weight, though I thought about it... and
> the Doran seems too big, and I don't know anything about fiberglass.
>
> If the BugEV were heavier....
>
> Suggestions?
>
> I'm waiting on the XR-3, but that from the pictures I've seen, RQR hasn't
> finished the design yet (major structural change from earlier pictures
> I've seen)...
>
> Moreover, it looks like with a diesel engine + lithium batteries - that
> it's going to be an expensive undertaking.
>
> Is there anything out there thats electric, around $5k, 3-wheeled-tadpole
> design?
>
> Used Sparrows requiring refurbishment, perhaps?
>
> Thanks, Best Regards....
>
>
> Ed Cooley
>
>
>
>
>
> Tom Gocze <[hidden email]>
> Sent by: [hidden email]
> 08/29/2007 14:45
> Please respond to
> Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
>
>
> To
> Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
> cc
>
> Subject
> [EVDL] Gizmo Gearing
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I had a a couple Gizmos. One was quite early and the other was fairly
> recent. They both were geared at about 6:1.
> They both seemed to have the right balance for starting and running
> at top speed (~40mph).
> Tom
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Timothy Balcer

Re: Gizmo...Doran-mo...Sparrow-mo...

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Ed,

Of the two Doran's made BY Doran, one of them was a full electric,
although the motive design was pretty primitive. The other one is in
the EVAlbum, and was probably converted later:

http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/559

Stephen Taylor is a collector it seems. :) If he is around I'm sure
he'll be happy to pipe up.

Anyhoo, as you can see the range is pretty low, mainly because there
is very little room to install battery, and the weight allowance is
pretty small for the Doran constructed per plans.

I'm sure you could adapt the design, and put more battery in (AC
Propulsion put in enough lead in the TZero to make it go pretty darned
far) but of course, that would increase the cost.

OR you could put in Lithium and get something like a 5 times range
boost (increased DOD and 1/4 the weight). Maybe more.

But then, that's not $5k

--T

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David D. Nelson

Re: Gizmo Gearing

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Tom,

Did either of your Gizmos have a belt drive? Also, did
either have a SepEx motor and Sevcon controller?

David
--- Tom Gocze <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I had a a couple Gizmos. One was quite early and the
> other was fairly  
> recent. They both were geared at about 6:1.
> They both seemed to have the right balance for
> starting and running  
> at top speed (~40mph).
> Tom
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


David D. Nelson
[hidden email]


       
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Tom Gocze

Re: Gizmo Gearing

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Hi David,
Both were chain drive. The first one was built around 2001. It had an  
ADC motor and a burnt out Curtis controller. It was burnt out while  
it was being
loaded onto the delivery truck. The seller's wife switched between  
forward and reverse while trying to move it onto the loading ramp and  
took out the controller.

  I bought a rebuilt Curtis from Golftech, which was defective. After  
getting pissed off while waiting for a call back, I decided to put in  
an Etek motor and a Sevcon Millipak 4Q controller. The Etek bolted  
right in, so I figured that was a sign from God. LOL.

It ran pretty good, but in hindsight I am skeptical about the  
longevity of the Etek. The Sevcon was a very impressive controller  
that was hard to understand how to program. The directions were  
written by British engineers and were a little confusing. Their US  
engineers were extremely helpful and talked me through the  
programming. They were able to diagnose a couple issues and get me  
running in no time.

Anyway, the other one was an early basket case that was all in  
pieces. I cleaned it up and used a contactor controller that was  
24/48V with a starting resistor. It had a 3hp PM motor that was  
fairly heavy, so I figured that 48V would be fine on it. It ran very  
well also.
The last step on the controller would snap you back like a kickdown  
on an automatic transmission would when you floor it.

Both were about 6:1. The chain drives were a little more noisy than a  
belt would've been, but they were simple to maintain and work on.
And they are cheap and parts are easy to find. I noticed the BugE  
uses a chain, probably for the same reason. The sound level is the  
same on the BugE as it was on the Gizmos.

Tom
PS. I still have a contactor controller archive on www.hotandcold.tv.




Tom,

Did either of your Gizmos have a belt drive? Also, did
either have a SepEx motor and Sevcon controller?

David
--- Tom Gocze <[hidden email]> wrote:


> I had a a couple Gizmos. One was quite early and the
> other was fairly
> recent. They both were geared at about 6:1.
> They both seemed to have the right balance for
> starting and running
> at top speed (~40mph).
> Tom
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>


David D. Nelson
[hidden email]

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David D. Nelson

Re: Gizmo Gearing

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Tom,

Maybe if I can't find the right stuff for a belt drive
I may just have to go with a chain drive setup. I'd
rather not have the extra noise but I don't really
know how much noise chain drives really have. I'm just
thinking of the noise from my bicycle chain when I'm
cruising along at 20+ mph. BTW, do you remember the
tooth counts on the two gears or at least on the drive
gear?

David

--- Tom Gocze <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi David,
> Both were chain drive. The first one was built
> around 2001. It had an  
> ADC motor and a burnt out Curtis controller. It was
> burnt out while  
> it was being
> loaded onto the delivery truck. The seller's wife
> switched between  
> forward and reverse while trying to move it onto the
> loading ramp and  
> took out the controller.
>
>   I bought a rebuilt Curtis from Golftech, which was
> defective. After  
> getting pissed off while waiting for a call back, I
> decided to put in  
> an Etek motor and a Sevcon Millipak 4Q controller.
> The Etek bolted  
> right in, so I figured that was a sign from God.
> LOL.
>
> It ran pretty good, but in hindsight I am skeptical
> about the  
> longevity of the Etek. The Sevcon was a very
> impressive controller  
> that was hard to understand how to program. The
> directions were  
> written by British engineers and were a little
> confusing. Their US  
> engineers were extremely helpful and talked me
> through the  
> programming. They were able to diagnose a couple
> issues and get me  
> running in no time.
>
> Anyway, the other one was an early basket case that
> was all in  
> pieces. I cleaned it up and used a contactor
> controller that was  
> 24/48V with a starting resistor. It had a 3hp PM
> motor that was  
> fairly heavy, so I figured that 48V would be fine on
> it. It ran very  
> well also.
> The last step on the controller would snap you back
> like a kickdown  
> on an automatic transmission would when you floor
> it.
>
> Both were about 6:1. The chain drives were a little
> more noisy than a  
> belt would've been, but they were simple to maintain
> and work on.
> And they are cheap and parts are easy to find. I
> noticed the BugE  
> uses a chain, probably for the same reason. The
> sound level is the  
> same on the BugE as it was on the Gizmos.
>
> Tom
> PS. I still have a contactor controller archive on
> www.hotandcold.tv.
>
>
>
>
> Tom,
>
> Did either of your Gizmos have a belt drive? Also,
> did
> either have a SepEx motor and Sevcon controller?
>
> David
> --- Tom Gocze <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> > I had a a couple Gizmos. One was quite early and
> the
> > other was fairly
> > recent. They both were geared at about 6:1.
> > They both seemed to have the right balance for
> > starting and running
> > at top speed (~40mph).
> > Tom
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
>
>
> David D. Nelson
> [hidden email]
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



       
____________________________________________________________________________________
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Jack Murray

Re: Gizmo Gearing

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I found the noise from the chain drive in my Aspire intolerable.
Nothing like a bike, its like a motorcycle, a buzzsaw.
Jack

David D. Nelson wrote:

> Tom,
>
> Maybe if I can't find the right stuff for a belt drive
> I may just have to go with a chain drive setup. I'd
> rather not have the extra noise but I don't really
> know how much noise chain drives really have. I'm just
> thinking of the noise from my bicycle chain when I'm
> cruising along at 20+ mph. BTW, do you remember the
> tooth counts on the two gears or at least on the drive
> gear?
>
> David
>
> --- Tom Gocze <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>>Hi David,
>>Both were chain drive. The first one was built
>>around 2001. It had an  
>>ADC motor and a burnt out Curtis controller. It was
>>burnt out while  
>>it was being
>>loaded onto the delivery truck. The seller's wife
>>switched between  
>>forward and reverse while trying to move it onto the
>>loading ramp and  
>>took out the controller.
>>
>>  I bought a rebuilt Curtis from Golftech, which was
>>defective. After  
>>getting pissed off while waiting for a call back, I
>>decided to put in  
>>an Etek motor and a Sevcon Millipak 4Q controller.
>>The Etek bolted  
>>right in, so I figured that was a sign from God.
>>LOL.
>>
>>It ran pretty good, but in hindsight I am skeptical
>>about the  
>>longevity of the Etek. The Sevcon was a very
>>impressive controller  
>>that was hard to understand how to program. The
>>directions were  
>>written by British engineers and were a little
>>confusing. Their US  
>>engineers were extremely helpful and talked me
>>through the  
>>programming. They were able to diagnose a couple
>>issues and get me  
>>running in no time.
>>
>>Anyway, the other one was an early basket case that
>>was all in  
>>pieces. I cleaned it up and used a contactor
>>controller that was  
>>24/48V with a starting resistor. It had a 3hp PM
>>motor that was  
>>fairly heavy, so I figured that 48V would be fine on
>>it. It ran very  
>>well also.
>>The last step on the controller would snap you back
>>like a kickdown  
>>on an automatic transmission would when you floor
>>it.
>>
>>Both were about 6:1. The chain drives were a little
>>more noisy than a  
>>belt would've been, but they were simple to maintain
>>and work on.
>>And they are cheap and parts are easy to find. I
>>noticed the BugE  
>>uses a chain, probably for the same reason. The
>>sound level is the  
>>same on the BugE as it was on the Gizmos.
>>
>>Tom
>>PS. I still have a contactor controller archive on
>>www.hotandcold.tv.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Tom,
>>
>>Did either of your Gizmos have a belt drive? Also,
>>did
>>either have a SepEx motor and Sevcon controller?
>>
>>David
>>--- Tom Gocze <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I had a a couple Gizmos. One was quite early and
>>
>>the
>>
>>>other was fairly
>>>recent. They both were geared at about 6:1.
>>>They both seemed to have the right balance for
>>>starting and running
>>>at top speed (~40mph).
>>>Tom
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>For subscription options, see
>>>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>David D. Nelson
>>[hidden email]
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>For subscription options, see
>>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
>
>
>
>        
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
> http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow 
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


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Bob Martin-4

Re: Gizmo Gearing

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Hi David, Sounds like you may want to start looking at something like a 1"
wide timing (cog) belt. Chain and sprockets are cheap, available and most
efficient, but noisy. Those Eagle belts and pulleys are expensive and not
worth the extra money. Check McMaster Carr on-line, they also have belt
tensioners and idlers if ya need em. You could consider experimenting with
chain and sprockets to find your ideal gear ratio, then spring for the
Cogbelt and pulleys when you get tired of the noiz. Bob

----- Original Message -----
From: "David D. Nelson" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Gizmo Gearing


> Tom,
>
> Maybe if I can't find the right stuff for a belt drive
> I may just have to go with a chain drive setup. I'd
> rather not have the extra noise but I don't really
> know how much noise chain drives really have. I'm just
> thinking of the noise from my bicycle chain when I'm
> cruising along at 20+ mph. BTW, do you remember the
> tooth counts on the two gears or at least on the drive
> gear?
>
> David
>
> --- Tom Gocze <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi David,
>> Both were chain drive. The first one was built
>> around 2001. It had an
>> ADC motor and a burnt out Curtis controller. It was
>> burnt out while
>> it was being
>> loaded onto the delivery truck. The seller's wife
>> switched between
>> forward and reverse while trying to move it onto the
>> loading ramp and
>> took out the controller.
>>
>>   I bought a rebuilt Curtis from Golftech, which was
>> defective. After
>> getting pissed off while waiting for a call back, I
>> decided to put in
>> an Etek motor and a Sevcon Millipak 4Q controller.
>> The Etek bolted
>> right in, so I figured that was a sign from God.
>> LOL.
>>
>> It ran pretty good, but in hindsight I am skeptical
>> about the
>> longevity of the Etek. The Sevcon was a very
>> impressive controller
>> that was hard to understand how to program. The
>> directions were
>> written by British engineers and were a little
>> confusing. Their US
>> engineers were extremely helpful and talked me
>> through the
>> programming. They were able to diagnose a couple
>> issues and get me
>> running in no time.
>>
>> Anyway, the other one was an early basket case that
>> was all in
>> pieces. I cleaned it up and used a contactor
>> controller that was
>> 24/48V with a starting resistor. It had a 3hp PM
>> motor that was
>> fairly heavy, so I figured that 48V would be fine on
>> it. It ran very
>> well also.
>> The last step on the controller would snap you back
>> like a kickdown
>> on an automatic transmission would when you floor
>> it.
>>
>> Both were about 6:1. The chain drives were a little
>> more noisy than a
>> belt would've been, but they were simple to maintain
>> and work on.
>> And they are cheap and parts are easy to find. I
>> noticed the BugE
>> uses a chain, probably for the same reason. The
>> sound level is the
>> same on the BugE as it was on the Gizmos.
>>
>> Tom
>> PS. I still have a contactor controller archive on
>> www.hotandcold.tv.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Tom,
>>
>> Did either of your Gizmos have a belt drive? Also,
>> did
>> either have a SepEx motor and Sevcon controller?
>>
>> David
>> --- Tom Gocze <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> > I had a a couple Gizmos. One was quite early and
>> the
>> > other was fairly
>> > recent. They both were geared at about 6:1.
>> > They both seemed to have the right balance for
>> > starting and running
>> > at top speed (~40mph).
>> > Tom
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > For subscription options, see
>> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> David D. Nelson
>> [hidden email]
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated
> for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
> http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev 

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Michael Hurley

Re: Gizmo...Doran-mo...Sparrow-mo...

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In reply to this post by ed.cooley
At 5:58 PM -0700 8/29/07, [hidden email] wrote:

>Subject: [EVDL] Gizmo...Doran-mo...Sparrow-mo...
>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
>
>Anyone made an electric Doran?
>After I get my a** in gear and finish my truck, I want to build a small
>low-profile 3-wheeled electric...
>
>Ed Cooley

I've never built the Doran, but I have the plans for it (and the RQR
TriMagnum, and the Dolphin Vortex), and they are pretty hard to
follow. They're really more like a book of guidelines and ideas
rather than actual plans. That may be why there are only two
completed Dorans I know of, including the original author's. The
other is an electric called EV3PO. Marc Kohler, the maker, used to be
on-list. I don't know if he still is. The website of the car is here
<http://home.austin.rr.com/ev3po/>. If you really want to build your
own, I would suggest checking out the Vortex
<http://www.vortexplans.com/>. It really is a superior design, and
the plans are top-notch. It also comes with information on making the
car electric the same as the Doran does.
--
                                    Auf wiedersehen!
                                        Michael
   ______________________________________________________
   "..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."

   "Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
   of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
   women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"

   "..No."

   "Why am I the only person that has that dream?"

                                    -Real Genius

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David D. Nelson

Re: Gizmo Gearing

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In reply to this post by Bob Martin-4
Bob,

Do the timing belts have a straight "tooth" pattern
rather than the V pattern? If so, do the pulleys have
a flange on either side to keep the belt from working
off of the pulley? An idler pulley might be needed so
I can get the 6:1 ratio without the belt hitting the
frame but I won't know until I get my motor back.

Thank you for the idea. I'll check it out.

David
--- Bob Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi David, Sounds like you may want to start looking
> at something like a 1"
> wide timing (cog) belt. Chain and sprockets are
> cheap, available and most
> efficient, but noisy. Those Eagle belts and pulleys
> are expensive and not
> worth the extra money. Check McMaster Carr on-line,
> they also have belt
> tensioners and idlers if ya need em. You could
> consider experimenting with
> chain and sprockets to find your ideal gear ratio,
> then spring for the
> Cogbelt and pulleys when you get tired of the noiz.
> Bob


David D. Nelson
[hidden email]


       
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mperry

Re: Gizmo Gearing

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In reply to this post by David D. Nelson
David, it sounds like you may be a member of the Gizmo group on Yahoogroups?
You might want to ask there. There was at least one (the last Gizmo made?)
that was belt drive. If they could do it, you should be able to.

I found Gates to be a great source of information and supplies. They don't
sell the Harley belts (by contract) but sell one that's very close.

BTW, I didn't find the chain noise all that bad, even with the curtains
open. Perhaps that was because of how it was mounted or because of the chain
used.

35 seemed a comfortable cruising speed, though it would run at 40 on the
flat. If you have some serious hills, you might well consider dropping the
ratio, especially if going with a belt drive.

----- Original Message -----
From: "David D. Nelson" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Gizmo Gearing


> Tom,
>
> Maybe if I can't find the right stuff for a belt drive
> I may just have to go with a chain drive setup. I'd
> rather not have the extra noise but I don't really
> know how much noise chain drives really have. I'm just
> thinking of the noise from my bicycle chain when I'm
> cruising along at 20+ mph. BTW, do you remember the
> tooth counts on the two gears or at least on the drive
> gear?
>
> David

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Bob Martin-4

Re: Gizmo Gearing

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In reply to this post by David D. Nelson
Yeah David, they do have straight tooth pattern and side flanges, McMaster
Carr has pics with dimensions to give you something to design around, Kick
some Amps! Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "David D. Nelson" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Gizmo Gearing


> Bob,
>
> Do the timing belts have a straight "tooth" pattern
> rather than the V pattern? If so, do the pulleys have
> a flange on either side to keep the belt from working
> off of the pulley? An idler pulley might be needed so
> I can get the 6:1 ratio without the belt hitting the
> frame but I won't know until I get my motor back.
>
> Thank you for the idea. I'll check it out.
>
> David
> --- Bob Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi David, Sounds like you may want to start looking
>> at something like a 1"
>> wide timing (cog) belt. Chain and sprockets are
>> cheap, available and most
>> efficient, but noisy. Those Eagle belts and pulleys
>> are expensive and not
>> worth the extra money. Check McMaster Carr on-line,
>> they also have belt
>> tensioners and idlers if ya need em. You could
>> consider experimenting with
>> chain and sprockets to find your ideal gear ratio,
>> then spring for the
>> Cogbelt and pulleys when you get tired of the noiz.
>> Bob
>
>
> David D. Nelson
> [hidden email]
>
>
>
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David D. Nelson

Re: Gizmo Gearing

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In reply to this post by mperry

--- Michael Perry <[hidden email]> wrote:

> David, it sounds like you may be a member of the
> Gizmo group on Yahoogroups?
> You might want to ask there. There was at least one
> (the last Gizmo made?)
> that was belt drive. If they could do it, you should
> be able to.

I'm wondering if my Gizmo is that one. It was used for
testing things out, according to Carl W. It ends up
that the 3:1 ratio puts the motor at the rated rpm
when doing 50mph. Maybe this is why Carl told me not
to go over 50mph. In talking with D&D Motors that rpm
is not the max  and I should use a 6:1 ratio and
should top out at about 45mph. Thanks for the idea.
I'll go over and post on the Gizmo group. I haven't
had luck finding the right gear sizes at
McMaster-Carr. Either they are too big or too small.
Maybe I'll go to a MC shop and see what size they use
on some of the belt driven bikes.



David D. Nelson
[hidden email]


       
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