High Voltage Arcs
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Simon Burns-3
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I am currently reading up on high voltage electrical systems for my ev.
I came across talk about the risk of arcing your electrical components. What does this mean? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! _______________________________________________ General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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David Nelson-5
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Think lightning on a small scale which can/will burn/melt metal and
other things. If you have a corded drill your can see what they are talking about if you look through the vent holes at the end of the drill while it is running. With AC current like in your home it switches direction at a rate of 60 times per second. This means that it is at zero volts 120 times per second. Because of this switches and things rated for AC do not have to have as wide of a gap nor have to be as robust as a DC switch. When the voltage goes through zero volts the arc stops, on direct current, however, the gap has to get big enough so the arc will quit. When an arc forms it ionizes the air around it making the air conduct electricity more easily so the arc has an easier time continuing. I'm sure others will add more to this basic explanation. HTH, David On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:31 PM, Simon Burns<[hidden email]> wrote: > I am currently reading up on high voltage electrical systems for my ev. > I came across talk about the risk of arcing your electrical components. > What does this mean? > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > Thanks! > > _______________________________________________ > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > > -- David D. Nelson http://evalbum.com/1328 _______________________________________________ General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
Zeke Yewdall
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Imagine a green ball of plasma (what the surface of the sun is made of) a
few inches in diameter (green if you use copper wire, kind of purply white if it's going off of steel). If you have a current limited source like a PV array, it's kind of fun to short it out and get a 300 or 500 volt, 10A arc -- that'll make a ball about 3 inches wide before it extiguishes. Batteries are not current limited.... so are a bit more dangerous if unfused. I've once had a big bronze battery termnal vanish in a white flash and a ball of smoke -- and I swore I'd never do that again. Don't ever put yourself in the position where you could short out a high voltage battery bank (proper design, nonconductive tools, etc), and use properly rated components (DC rated, not AC rated) so the components themselves don't arc. On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 3:53 PM, David Nelson <[hidden email]> wrote: > Think lightning on a small scale which can/will burn/melt metal and > other things. If you have a corded drill your can see what they are > talking about if you look through the vent holes at the end of the > drill while it is running. With AC current like in your home it > switches direction at a rate of 60 times per second. This means that > it is at zero volts 120 times per second. Because of this switches and > things rated for AC do not have to have as wide of a gap nor have to > be as robust as a DC switch. When the voltage goes through zero volts > the arc stops, on direct current, however, the gap has to get big > enough so the arc will quit. When an arc forms it ionizes the air > around it making the air conduct electricity more easily so the arc > has an easier time continuing. > > I'm sure others will add more to this basic explanation. > > HTH, > > David > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:31 PM, Simon Burns<[hidden email]> wrote: > > I am currently reading up on high voltage electrical systems for my ev. > > I came across talk about the risk of arcing your electrical components. > > What does this mean? > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks! > > > > _______________________________________________ > > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ > > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv > > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ > > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > > > > > > > > -- > David D. Nelson > http://evalbum.com/1328 > > _______________________________________________ > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20090630/86b1c713/attachment.html _______________________________________________ General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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Dave Hymers
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www.plasmaboyracing.com
somewhere there is the story of how John Wayland got his name. Somebody had to refer to that sooner or later ;) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20090630/efb11244/attachment.html _______________________________________________ General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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Gene Stopp
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http://www.evdl.org/pages/plasmaboy.html
www.plasmaboyracing.com somewhere there is the story of how John Wayland got his name. Somebody had to refer to that sooner or later ;) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20090630/efb11244/attachment.html _______________________________________________ General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev _______________________________________________ General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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Bill Dube
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In reply to this post
by Simon Burns-3
No matter what you read or how thoroughly you are instructed, it
seems like no one _really_ gets the proper respect for battery safety until they personally experience a "plasma event". I have lectured and instructed newbees about the safety precautions told them repeatedly that "1000's of amps will flow" if you are not very careful. They will still be careless with tools, nuts, bolts, soldering irons, etc. no matter how many times I pull them aside and say, "If this had touched that, 1000's of amps would have flowed with a blinding flash. You need to really be careful and deliberate when working with batteries." Then, they will finally do something stupid, like measure the length of a high-power cell with metal calipers, or carelessly touch "this" to "that", or drop a bus bar into just the wrong spot. After their vision clears and they can hear once again, they will universally say, "Oh my god! I had no idea that would happen!" They finally get "religion" about safety procedures around batteries after that. It seems to require an object lesson to fully appreciate the true meaning of "1000's of amps will flow." 1) _Always_ wear those blue nitrile mechanic's gloves when working on the battery pack or the high-current wiring of your EV. 2) Check for ground faults first, before you do _anything_ else. 3) Don't just "dive in" and go to work. Instead, carefully think through every move you make before you pick up a tool or touch anything. Be _very_ deliberate. Think about the "other" end of the wire or the tool. Where could that bus bar drop? Where are you going to put that bolt when you remove it? Where are you going to put that tool down while you are hand-loosening that nut? 4) Take a few extra moments to tape up the metal surfaces of the tool. Then cover surrounding exposed parts with a heavy cloth, rubber matt, blue painter's tape, insulating board, etc. Of course, you will ignore all these precautions until you actually personally witness "1000's of amps flowing." :-) Bill Dube' At 03:31 PM 6/30/2009, you wrote: >I am currently reading up on high voltage electrical systems for my ev. >I came across talk about the risk of arcing your electrical components. >What does this mean? >Any help would be greatly appreciated. >Thanks! > >_______________________________________________ >General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ >Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv >Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ >Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev _______________________________________________ General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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gary k
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thanks for the safety reminder Bill, we can't repeat this too often. I've added a couple comments ... > > 1) _Always_ wear those blue nitrile mechanic's gloves when working on > the battery pack or the high-current wiring of your EV. > > - or even better - lineman's gloves. much thicker and rated for the big HV ($40 grainger). optional leather covers ($40). > 4) Take a few extra moments to tape up the metal surfaces of the > tool. Then cover surrounding exposed parts with a heavy cloth, rubber > matt, blue painter's tape, insulating board, etc. > - careful! a quick wrap of electrical tape might not insulate HV. Better than nothing but maybe use thicker pipe insulation, rubber sheet, etc. Gary Krysztopik www.ZWheelz.com www.aceaa.org San Antonio, TX _______________________________________________ General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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Mike Willmon
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One thing I am wanting to do for my Junior racer is get some of those plastic (composite) tools, like the composite ratchet and open
end wrenches. Has anyone ever played with any of those? Most of the stuff the Junior has to use does not take that much torque so the plastic tools should be fine. They are plastic handles with the metal inserts for the ends. I saw some of the plastic ratchets a while back but don't remember where to get them. Does any one know? Mike > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of gary > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 5:53 PM > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event" > > > thanks for the safety reminder Bill, we can't repeat this too often. > I've added a couple comments ... > > > > 1) _Always_ wear those blue nitrile mechanic's gloves when working on > > the battery pack or the high-current wiring of your EV. > > > > > - or even better - lineman's gloves. much thicker and rated for the big > HV ($40 grainger). optional leather covers ($40). > > 4) Take a few extra moments to tape up the metal surfaces of the > > tool. Then cover surrounding exposed parts with a heavy cloth, rubber > > matt, blue painter's tape, insulating board, etc. > > > - careful! a quick wrap of electrical tape might not insulate HV. > Better than nothing but maybe use thicker pipe insulation, rubber sheet, > etc. > > Gary Krysztopik > www.ZWheelz.com > www.aceaa.org > San Antonio, TX > > > _______________________________________________ > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev _______________________________________________ General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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David Nelson-5
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I have never used these but here is a link I had on some:
http://www.cementexusa.com/index.php HTH, On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Mike Willmon<[hidden email]> wrote: > One thing I am wanting to do for my Junior racer is get some of those plastic (composite) tools, like the composite ratchet and open > end wrenches. Has anyone ever played with any of those? Most of the stuff the Junior has to use does not take that much torque so > the plastic tools should be fine. They are plastic handles with the metal inserts for the ends. I saw some of the plastic ratchets > a while back but don't remember where to get them. Does any one know? -- David D. Nelson http://evalbum.com/1328 _______________________________________________ General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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Mike Willmon
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Their links don't work. But I'm interested.
> -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Nelson > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 8:17 PM > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event" > > I have never used these but here is a link I had on some: > http://www.cementexusa.com/index.php > > HTH, > > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Mike Willmon<[hidden email]> wrote: > > One thing I am wanting to do for my Junior racer is get some of those plastic (composite) tools, like the > composite ratchet and open > > end wrenches. Has anyone ever played with any of those? Most of the stuff the Junior has to use does not take > that much torque so > > the plastic tools should be fine. They are plastic handles with the metal inserts for the ends. I saw some of the > plastic ratchets > > a while back but don't remember where to get them. Does any one know? > > > > -- > David D. Nelson > http://evalbum.com/1328 > > _______________________________________________ > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev _______________________________________________ General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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David Nelson-5
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I was just there and just checked it again. Try this:
www.cementexusa.com maybe you use a different browser. If that doesn't work if you can take a 20mb file I can email you their pdf. On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:25 PM, Mike Willmon<[hidden email]> wrote: > Their links don't work. But I'm interested. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Nelson >> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 8:17 PM >> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event" >> >> I have never used these but here is a link I had on some: >> http://www.cementexusa.com/index.php >> >> HTH, >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Mike Willmon<[hidden email]> wrote: >> > One thing I am wanting to do for my Junior racer is get some of those plastic (composite) tools, like the >> composite ratchet and open >> > end wrenches. Has anyone ever played with any of those? Most of the stuff the Junior has to use does not take >> that much torque so >> > the plastic tools should be fine. They are plastic handles with the metal inserts for the ends. I saw some of the >> plastic ratchets >> > a while back but don't remember where to get them. Does any one know? >> >> >> >> -- >> David D. Nelson >> http://evalbum.com/1328 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ >> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv >> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ >> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > > > _______________________________________________ > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > > -- David D. Nelson http://evalbum.com/1328 _______________________________________________ General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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Bill Dube
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In reply to this post
by gary k
>.. > > > > 1) _Always_ wear those blue nitrile mechanic's gloves when working on > > the battery pack or the high-current wiring of your EV. > > > > >- or even better - lineman's gloves. much thicker and rated for the big >HV ($40 grainger). optional leather covers ($40). You can't possibly handle ordinary tools with lineman's gloves. You will drop nuts, bolts and bus bars with the resulting disaster. The blue gloves are not perfect protection, but like a condom, they offer 99%+ protection. They don't interfere with your dexterity. You need some degree of protection, but if you wear thick gloves to do ordinary work around your pack, you will have one plasma disaster after another as you fumble tools and parts. The blue gloves offer just that little bit extra that stops 99% of the "stupid" shocks you will get when, for example, you accidentally brush your arm against a terminal or live component while holding a wrench in your hand. > > 4) Take a few extra moments to tape up the metal surfaces of the > > tool. Then cover surrounding exposed parts with a heavy cloth, rubber > > matt, blue painter's tape, insulating board, etc. > > >- careful! a quick wrap of electrical tape might not insulate HV. >Better than nothing but maybe use thicker pipe insulation, rubber sheet, >etc. You are not dealing with big volts. Ordinary tape works fine. Tool dip works darn good as well. Heat shrink is nice for screw drivers and ratchet handles. You are just trying to help keep metal from touching metal when you do something "stupid". _______________________________________________ General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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Mike Willmon
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In reply to this post
by David Nelson-5
I got it. Google Chrome, Firefox nor IE worked on the links. But Firefox allowed me to download the .pdf catalog. So I got the
20M file.. Thanks. I'll take a look at what they got. I don't need my Junior driver sparking crescent wrenches like I have done in the past ;-) Mike > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Nelson > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 8:31 PM > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event" > > I was just there and just checked it again. Try this: > www.cementexusa.com maybe you use a different browser. If that doesn't > work if you can take a 20mb file I can email you their pdf. > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:25 PM, Mike Willmon<[hidden email]> wrote: > > Their links don't work. But I'm interested. > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Nelson > >> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 8:17 PM > >> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List > >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event" > >> > >> I have never used these but here is a link I had on some: > >> http://www.cementexusa.com/index.php > >> > >> HTH, > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Mike Willmon<[hidden email]> wrote: > >> > One thing I am wanting to do for my Junior racer is get some of those plastic (composite) tools, like the > >> composite ratchet and open > >> > end wrenches. Has anyone ever played with any of those? Most of the stuff the Junior has to use does not > take > >> that much torque so > >> > the plastic tools should be fine. They are plastic handles with the metal inserts for the ends. I saw some of > the > >> plastic ratchets > >> > a while back but don't remember where to get them. Does any one know? > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> David D. Nelson > >> http://evalbum.com/1328 > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ > >> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv > >> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ > >> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ > > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv > > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ > > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > > > > > > > > -- > David D. Nelson > http://evalbum.com/1328 > > _______________________________________________ > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev _______________________________________________ General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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David Nelson-5
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Great. If you order them report back on how you like them.
On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:12 PM, Mike Willmon<[hidden email]> wrote: > I got it. Google Chrome, Firefox nor IE worked on the links. But Firefox allowed me to download the .pdf catalog. So I got the > 20M file.. > > Thanks. I'll take a look at what they got. I don't need my Junior driver sparking crescent wrenches like I have done in the past > ;-) > > Mike > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Nelson >> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 8:31 PM >> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event" >> >> I was just there and just checked it again. Try this: >> www.cementexusa.com maybe you use a different browser. If that doesn't >> work if you can take a 20mb file I can email you their pdf. >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:25 PM, Mike Willmon<[hidden email]> wrote: >> > Their links don't work. But I'm interested. >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Nelson >> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 8:17 PM >> >> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List >> >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event" >> >> >> >> I have never used these but here is a link I had on some: >> >> http://www.cementexusa.com/index.php >> >> >> >> HTH, >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Mike Willmon<[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> > One thing I am wanting to do for my Junior racer is get some of those plastic (composite) tools, like the >> >> composite ratchet and open >> >> > end wrenches. Has anyone ever played with any of those? Most of the stuff the Junior has to use does not >> take >> >> that much torque so >> >> > the plastic tools should be fine. They are plastic handles with the metal inserts for the ends. I saw some of >> the >> >> plastic ratchets >> >> > a while back but don't remember where to get them. Does any one know? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> David D. Nelson >> >> http://evalbum.com/1328 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ >> >> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv >> >> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ >> >> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ >> > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv >> > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ >> > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> David D. Nelson >> http://evalbum.com/1328 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ >> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv >> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ >> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > > > _______________________________________________ > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > > -- David D. Nelson http://evalbum.com/1328 _______________________________________________ General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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Mike Willmon
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In reply to this post
by Mike Willmon
Holy schmolly. Those are all steel tools. I saw some composite wrenches at one time that were less than half the prices. Granted
they aren't made to take the 200 ft-lbs the steel tools are made for. But I only need a handful of ft-lbs rating for the electrical components. Thousands of $$ for a set is too much for my taste. I need ala cartse pricing on a crescent, three allen wrenches and 4 or 5 box ends, and a 1/4" ratchet. > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mike Willmon > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 9:12 PM > To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List' > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event" > > I got it. Google Chrome, Firefox nor IE worked on the links. But Firefox allowed me to download the .pdf catalog. > So I got the > 20M file.. > > Thanks. I'll take a look at what they got. I don't need my Junior driver sparking crescent wrenches like I have done > in the past > ;-) > > Mike > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Nelson > > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 8:31 PM > > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List > > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event" > > > > I was just there and just checked it again. Try this: > > www.cementexusa.com maybe you use a different browser. If that doesn't > > work if you can take a 20mb file I can email you their pdf. > > > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:25 PM, Mike Willmon<[hidden email]> wrote: > > > Their links don't work. But I'm interested. > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Nelson > > >> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 8:17 PM > > >> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List > > >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event" > > >> > > >> I have never used these but here is a link I had on some: > > >> http://www.cementexusa.com/index.php > > >> > > >> HTH, > > >> > > >> > > >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Mike Willmon<[hidden email]> wrote: > > >> > One thing I am wanting to do for my Junior racer is get some of those plastic (composite) tools, like the > > >> composite ratchet and open > > >> > end wrenches. Has anyone ever played with any of those? Most of the stuff the Junior has to use does not > > take > > >> that much torque so > > >> > the plastic tools should be fine. They are plastic handles with the metal inserts for the ends. I saw some of > > the > > >> plastic ratchets > > >> > a while back but don't remember where to get them. Does any one know? > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> David D. Nelson > > >> http://evalbum.com/1328 > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ > > >> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv > > >> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ > > >> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ > > > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv > > > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ > > > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > David D. Nelson > > http://evalbum.com/1328 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ > > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv > > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ > > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > > > _______________________________________________ > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev _______________________________________________ General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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David Nelson-5
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Here is another link:
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/catalog2.asp?tool=hand&Cat_ID=120324&Cat_NAME=Electrical+%2F+Electronic+Service&Sub_Cat_ID=120352&Sub_Cat_NAME=Insulating+Composite&store=snapon-store http://tinyurl.com/nz4v2w These are Snap-On tools so they may be expensive too. On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:19 PM, Mike Willmon<[hidden email]> wrote: > Holy schmolly. Those are all steel tools. I saw some composite wrenches at one time that were less than half the prices. Granted > they aren't made to take the 200 ft-lbs the steel tools are made for. But I only need a handful of ft-lbs rating for the electrical > components. Thousands of $$ for a set is too much for my taste. I need ala cartse pricing on a crescent, three allen wrenches and > 4 or 5 box ends, and a 1/4" ratchet. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mike Willmon >> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 9:12 PM >> To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List' >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event" >> >> I got it. Google Chrome, Firefox nor IE worked on the links. But Firefox allowed me to download the .pdf catalog. >> So I got the >> 20M file.. >> >> Thanks. I'll take a look at what they got. I don't need my Junior driver sparking crescent wrenches like I have done >> in the past >> ;-) >> >> Mike >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Nelson >> > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 8:31 PM >> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List >> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event" >> > >> > I was just there and just checked it again. Try this: >> > www.cementexusa.com maybe you use a different browser. If that doesn't >> > work if you can take a 20mb file I can email you their pdf. >> > >> > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:25 PM, Mike Willmon<[hidden email]> wrote: >> > > Their links don't work. But I'm interested. >> > > >> > >> -----Original Message----- >> > >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Nelson >> > >> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 8:17 PM >> > >> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List >> > >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event" >> > >> >> > >> I have never used these but here is a link I had on some: >> > >> http://www.cementexusa.com/index.php >> > >> >> > >> HTH, >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Mike Willmon<[hidden email]> wrote: >> > >> > One thing I am wanting to do for my Junior racer is get some of those plastic (composite) tools, like the >> > >> composite ratchet and open >> > >> > end wrenches. Has anyone ever played with any of those? Most of the stuff the Junior has to use does not >> > take >> > >> that much torque so >> > >> > the plastic tools should be fine. They are plastic handles with the metal inserts for the ends. I saw some of >> > the >> > >> plastic ratchets >> > >> > a while back but don't remember where to get them. Does any one know? >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> -- >> > >> David D. Nelson >> > >> http://evalbum.com/1328 >> > >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > >> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ >> > >> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv >> > >> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ >> > >> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ >> > > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv >> > > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ >> > > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > David D. Nelson >> > http://evalbum.com/1328 >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ >> > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv >> > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ >> > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ >> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv >> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ >> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > > > _______________________________________________ > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > > -- David D. Nelson http://evalbum.com/1328 _______________________________________________ General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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Mike Willmon
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Yep, thats them. I'd probably buy those. I need to look through their whole offering. But if they have everything I need it
might happen. Thanks Mike > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Nelson > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 9:49 PM > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event" > > Here is another link: > http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/catalog2.asp?tool=hand&Cat_ID=120324&Cat_NAME=Electrical+%2F+Electronic > +Service&Sub_Cat_ID=120352&Sub_Cat_NAME=Insulating+Composite&store=snapon-store > > http://tinyurl.com/nz4v2w > > These are Snap-On tools so they may be expensive too. > > > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:19 PM, Mike Willmon<[hidden email]> wrote: > > Holy schmolly. Those are all steel tools. I saw some composite wrenches at one time that were less than half > the prices. Granted > > they aren't made to take the 200 ft-lbs the steel tools are made for. But I only need a handful of ft-lbs rating for > the electrical > > components. Thousands of $$ for a set is too much for my taste. I need ala cartse pricing on a crescent, three > allen wrenches and > > 4 or 5 box ends, and a 1/4" ratchet. > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mike Willmon > >> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 9:12 PM > >> To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List' > >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event" > >> > >> I got it. Google Chrome, Firefox nor IE worked on the links. But Firefox allowed me to download the .pdf > catalog. > >> So I got the > >> 20M file.. > >> > >> Thanks. I'll take a look at what they got. I don't need my Junior driver sparking crescent wrenches like I have > done > >> in the past > >> ;-) > >> > >> Mike > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Nelson > >> > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 8:31 PM > >> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List > >> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event" > >> > > >> > I was just there and just checked it again. Try this: > >> > www.cementexusa.com maybe you use a different browser. If that doesn't > >> > work if you can take a 20mb file I can email you their pdf. > >> > > >> > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:25 PM, Mike Willmon<[hidden email]> wrote: > >> > > Their links don't work. But I'm interested. > >> > > > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> > >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Nelson > >> > >> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 8:17 PM > >> > >> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List > >> > >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event" > >> > >> > >> > >> I have never used these but here is a link I had on some: > >> > >> http://www.cementexusa.com/index.php > >> > >> > >> > >> HTH, > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Mike Willmon<[hidden email]> wrote: > >> > >> > One thing I am wanting to do for my Junior racer is get some of those plastic (composite) tools, like the > >> > >> composite ratchet and open > >> > >> > end wrenches. Has anyone ever played with any of those? Most of the stuff the Junior has to use does > not > >> > take > >> > >> that much torque so > >> > >> > the plastic tools should be fine. They are plastic handles with the metal inserts for the ends. I saw some > of > >> > the > >> > >> plastic ratchets > >> > >> > a while back but don't remember where to get them. Does any one know? > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> David D. Nelson > >> > >> http://evalbum.com/1328 > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > >> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ > >> > >> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv > >> > >> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ > >> > >> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ > >> > > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv > >> > > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ > >> > > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > David D. Nelson > >> > http://evalbum.com/1328 > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ > >> > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv > >> > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ > >> > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ > >> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv > >> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ > >> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ > > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv > > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ > > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > > > > > > > > -- > David D. Nelson > http://evalbum.com/1328 > > _______________________________________________ > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev _______________________________________________ General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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EVDL Administrator
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In reply to this post
by David Nelson-5
Anyone new to the EVDL who has never read the story of how John Wayland
earned his "Plasma Boy" nickname should read it, NOW. For one thing, it's a good cautionary tale : if you won't take care of yourself, at least practice safe battery maintenance to keep your EV from being turned into a cinder. For another, it's a highly entertaining read. If you're short of time, I recommend the Reader's Digest Condensed version here : http://evdl.org/pages/plasmaboy.html However, if you want the full flavor of the story (and you have a lot of time), read the original full length 8 1/2 page version. It has every last little detail, including how John and his friends swarmed over an electric dragster nearly ruined by fire and, in a bit over 16 hours, had it ready to race again (and even looking decent). Go here instead : http://evdl.org/docs/plasmaboy.pdf David Roden EVDL Administrator http://www.evdl.org/ _______________________________________________ General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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jneiswanger
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In reply to this post
by David Nelson-5
I have the Cementex "Battery Tool Kit" and it is very nice. I don't
remember how much I paid now, I did order it from one of my local electrical wholesale houses and I don't think I had to pay full catalog price. The wrenches are steel with a 2 layer insulating covering such that the inner color will show through if the insulation gets worn. Then it would be time to order a replacment but it will still work till it arrives. The torque wrench is in inch pounds and looks a lot like my Snap-on one although I don't see their logo on the handle. The handle cover slips off to make the adjustment on the wrench but it does fit snug enough that I don't feel at all concerned about it coming off in use. It all even came in a small plastic tool box so they can be kept separate from the general population of tools in the shop and can be taken as a kit to a job site. I think the kit has open ends, ratcheting box ends, nut drivers, flat and phillips screw drivers, short and deep sockets, a ratchet, extension, and torque wrench. The wrenches and sockets are in the 2 or 3 most popular battery sizes, 1/2", 9/16", and maybe 10mm. This is all from memory so the catalog should be consulted for exact items. respectfully, John ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Nelson" <[hidden email]> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 9:18 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event" Great. If you order them report back on how you like them. On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:12 PM, Mike Willmon<[hidden email]> wrote: > I got it. Google Chrome, Firefox nor IE worked on the links. But Firefox > allowed me to download the .pdf catalog. So I got the > 20M file.. > > Thanks. I'll take a look at what they got. I don't need my Junior driver > sparking crescent wrenches like I have done in the past > ;-) > > Mike > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On >> Behalf Of David Nelson >> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 8:31 PM >> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event" >> >> I was just there and just checked it again. Try this: >> www.cementexusa.com maybe you use a different browser. If that doesn't >> work if you can take a 20mb file I can email you their pdf. >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:25 PM, Mike Willmon<[hidden email]> wrote: >> > Their links don't work. But I'm interested. >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On >> >> Behalf Of David Nelson >> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 8:17 PM >> >> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List >> >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event" >> >> >> >> I have never used these but here is a link I had on some: >> >> http://www.cementexusa.com/index.php >> >> >> >> HTH, >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Mike Willmon<[hidden email]> >> >> wrote: >> >> > One thing I am wanting to do for my Junior racer is get some of >> >> > those plastic (composite) tools, like the >> >> composite ratchet and open >> >> > end wrenches. Has anyone ever played with any of those? Most of the >> >> > stuff the Junior has to use does not >> take >> >> that much torque so >> >> > the plastic tools should be fine. They are plastic handles with the >> >> > metal inserts for the ends. I saw some of >> the >> >> plastic ratchets >> >> > a while back but don't remember where to get them. Does any one >> >> > know? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> David D. Nelson >> >> http://evalbum.com/1328 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ >> >> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv >> >> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ >> >> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ >> > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv >> > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ >> > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> David D. Nelson >> http://evalbum.com/1328 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ >> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv >> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ >> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > > > _______________________________________________ > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > > -- David D. Nelson http://evalbum.com/1328 _______________________________________________ General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev _______________________________________________ General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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Mike Willmon
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That sounds pretty cool. The double layer insulation makes sense. 1/2", 9/16", 5/8", 11/16" and the 10mm are the most common on my
car. The Enersys batteries have 10mm screws and the Albright Contacotrs are metric to but an 11/16" box end fits well enough and doesn't damage the nuts. The Junior would do with those but I have a lot of countersunk allen heads and the set screws for the sprokets, brake hub and bearings take allens as well (7/64", 3/16", 7/32 and 1/4") and I can take that whole car apart (even the motor). I may need to find a distributor that can give a deal. :-) > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email] > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 11:47 PM > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event" > > I have the Cementex "Battery Tool Kit" and it is very nice. I don't > remember how much I paid now, I did order it from one of my local > electrical wholesale houses and I don't think I had to pay full catalog > price. The wrenches are steel with a 2 layer insulating covering such that > the inner color will show through if the insulation gets worn. Then it > would be time to order a replacment but it will still work till it arrives. > The torque wrench is in inch pounds and looks a lot like my Snap-on one > although I don't see their logo on the handle. The handle cover slips off > to make the adjustment on the wrench but it does fit snug enough that I > don't feel at all concerned about it coming off in use. It all even came in > a small plastic tool box so they can be kept separate from the general > population of tools in the shop and can be taken as a kit to a job site. > > I think the kit has open ends, ratcheting box ends, nut drivers, flat and > phillips screw drivers, short and deep sockets, a ratchet, extension, and > torque wrench. The wrenches and sockets are in the 2 or 3 most popular > battery sizes, 1/2", 9/16", and maybe 10mm. This is all from memory so the > catalog should be consulted for exact items. > > respectfully, > John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Nelson" <[hidden email]> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]> > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 9:18 PM > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event" > > > Great. If you order them report back on how you like them. > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:12 PM, Mike Willmon<[hidden email]> wrote: > > I got it. Google Chrome, Firefox nor IE worked on the links. But Firefox > > allowed me to download the .pdf catalog. So I got the > > 20M file.. > > > > Thanks. I'll take a look at what they got. I don't need my Junior driver > > sparking crescent wrenches like I have done in the past > > ;-) > > > > Mike > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On > >> Behalf Of David Nelson > >> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 8:31 PM > >> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List > >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event" > >> > >> I was just there and just checked it again. Try this: > >> www.cementexusa.com maybe you use a different browser. If that doesn't > >> work if you can take a 20mb file I can email you their pdf. > >> > >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:25 PM, Mike Willmon<[hidden email]> wrote: > >> > Their links don't work. But I'm interested. > >> > > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On > >> >> Behalf Of David Nelson > >> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 8:17 PM > >> >> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List > >> >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event" > >> >> > >> >> I have never used these but here is a link I had on some: > >> >> http://www.cementexusa.com/index.php > >> >> > >> >> HTH, > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Mike Willmon<[hidden email]> > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > One thing I am wanting to do for my Junior racer is get some of > >> >> > those plastic (composite) tools, like the > >> >> composite ratchet and open > >> >> > end wrenches. Has anyone ever played with any of those? Most of the > >> >> > stuff the Junior has to use does not > >> take > >> >> that much torque so > >> >> > the plastic tools should be fine. They are plastic handles with the > >> >> > metal inserts for the ends. I saw some of > >> the > >> >> plastic ratchets > >> >> > a while back but don't remember where to get them. Does any one > >> >> > know? > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> David D. Nelson > >> >> http://evalbum.com/1328 > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ > >> >> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv > >> >> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ > >> >> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ > >> > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv > >> > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ > >> > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> David D. Nelson > >> http://evalbum.com/1328 > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ > >> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv > >> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ > >> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ > > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv > > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ > > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > > > > > > > > -- > David D. Nelson > http://evalbum.com/1328 > > _______________________________________________ > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > > _______________________________________________ > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev _______________________________________________ General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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