High Voltage Arcs

[Zeke Yewdall]

The website worked fine for me with Firefox.

Harbor freight also has some inexpensive composite ratchets -- no sockets or
extensions or such, but cheaper ratchets that hold up okay for lighter loads
(like typical battery terminals).

z

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Mike Willmon <[hidden email]> wrote:

> That sounds pretty cool. The double layer insulation makes sense.  1/2",
> 9/16", 5/8", 11/16" and the 10mm are the most common on my
> car.  The Enersys batteries have 10mm screws and the Albright Contacotrs
> are metric to but an 11/16" box end fits well enough and
> doesn't damage the nuts.  The Junior would do with those but I have a lot
> of countersunk allen heads and the set screws for the
> sprokets, brake hub and bearings take allens as well (7/64", 3/16", 7/32
> and 1/4") and I can take that whole car apart (even the
> motor).  I may need to find a distributor that can give a deal.
>
> :-)
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of [hidden email]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 11:47 PM
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event"
> >
> > I have the Cementex "Battery Tool Kit" and it is very nice.  I don't
> > remember how much I paid now,  I did order it from one of my local
> > electrical wholesale houses and I don't think I had to pay full catalog
> > price.  The wrenches are steel with a 2 layer insulating covering such
> that
> > the inner color will show through if the insulation gets worn.  Then it
> > would be time to order a replacment but it will still work till it
> arrives.
> > The torque wrench is in inch pounds and looks a lot like my Snap-on one
> > although I don't see their logo on the handle.  The handle cover slips
> off
> > to make the adjustment on the wrench but it does fit snug enough that I
> > don't feel at all concerned about it coming off in use.  It all even came
> in
> > a small plastic tool box so they can be kept separate from the general
> > population of tools in the shop and can be taken as a kit to a job site.
> >
> > I think the kit has open ends, ratcheting box ends, nut drivers, flat and
> > phillips screw drivers, short and deep sockets, a ratchet, extension, and
> > torque wrench.  The wrenches and sockets are in the 2 or 3 most popular
> > battery sizes, 1/2", 9/16", and maybe 10mm.  This is all from memory so
> the
> > catalog should be consulted for exact items.
> >
> > respectfully,
> > John
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Nelson" <[hidden email]>
> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 9:18 PM
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event"
> >
> >
> > Great. If you order them report back on how you like them.
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:12 PM, Mike Willmon<[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > > I got it. Google Chrome, Firefox nor IE worked on the links. But
> Firefox
> > > allowed me to download the .pdf catalog. So I got the
> > > 20M file..
> > >
> > > Thanks. I'll take a look at what they got. I don't need my Junior
> driver
> > > sparking crescent wrenches like I have done in the past
> > > ;-)
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> > >> Behalf Of David Nelson
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 8:31 PM
> > >> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> > >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event"
> > >>
> > >> I was just there and just checked it again. Try this:
> > >> www.cementexusa.com maybe you use a different browser. If that
> doesn't
> > >> work if you can take a 20mb file I can email you their pdf.
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:25 PM, Mike Willmon<[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > >> > Their links don't work. But I'm interested.
> > >> >
> > >> >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]
> On
> > >> >> Behalf Of David Nelson
> > >> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 8:17 PM
> > >> >> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> > >> >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event"
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I have never used these but here is a link I had on some:
> > >> >> http://www.cementexusa.com/index.php
> > >> >>
> > >> >> HTH,
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Mike Willmon<[hidden email]>
> > >> >> wrote:
> > >> >> > One thing I am wanting to do for my Junior racer is get some of
> > >> >> > those plastic (composite) tools, like the
> > >> >> composite ratchet and open
> > >> >> > end wrenches. Has anyone ever played with any of those? Most of
> the
> > >> >> > stuff the Junior has to use does not
> > >> take
> > >> >> that much torque so
> > >> >> > the plastic tools should be fine. They are plastic handles with
> the
> > >> >> > metal inserts for the ends. I saw some of
> > >> the
> > >> >> plastic ratchets
> > >> >> > a while back but don't remember where to get them. Does any one
> > >> >> > know?
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> --
> > >> >> David D. Nelson
> > >> >> http://evalbum.com/1328
> > >> >>
> > >> >> _______________________________________________
> > >> >> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> > >> >> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> > >> >> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> > >> >> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > _______________________________________________
> > >> > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> > >> > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> > >> > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> > >> > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> David D. Nelson
> > >> http://evalbum.com/1328
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> > >> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> > >> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> > >> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
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> > > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> > > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > David D. Nelson
> > http://evalbum.com/1328
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> > Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
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> >
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>
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>

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[Jim Walls-2]

Someone posted:
> I have never used these but here is a link I had on some:
> http://www.cementexusa.com/index.php


Those look like the ones we have at work.  Very pricey, but GREAT!  We
are using them for 48V station batteries for 2-way radio sites.  A small
battery plant is about 750AH, and our largest is currently 2700AH.  In
case you are wondering, that's 15 strings in parallel with each string
consisting of 4 12V 180AH gell type telecomm batteries.  Total is over 2
tons of battery.

BTW, we had had our primary power tech have a plasma event last year.  
He was adding 3 additional 180AH 48V banks to an existing battery
plant.  Did a boo-boo and shorted one of those new banks with a 2 foot
piece of 2AWG.  Scared the hell out of me when he called me on the radio
and said that he needed me to call paramedics.  He ended up getting to
know the folks at the Grossman Burn Center near Los Angeles, CA far
better than he would have liked.  Was off work for 3 weeks too.  That
was strictly from the flash - NOT from electricity going through his finger.

BTW, in another followup message on this thread it was suggested to wear
the disposable nitrile gloves.  Although they should have no trouble
stopping low to moderate voltage, in the event of a flash, the glove
would likely melt - INSTANTLY.  So now your finger is burned and covered
with melted glove material.  A lightweight leather or Nomex glove might
be better.  However as someone pointed out, make sure it's light enough
that you retain your dexterity.


--
73
-------------------------------------
Jim Walls - K6CCC
[hidden email]
Ofc:  818-548-4804
http://home.earthlink.net/~k6ccc
AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395

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[Doug Weathers]

Here's Neon John talking about gloves from last year:

<http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-to18448668%7Ca18461034>

Warning: he links to a picture of someone who got electrocuted.  Don't
click on it unless you want to see a human being who burned to death.

I think the advice boils down to: wear three layers of PVC exam gloves,
or lineman's gloves if you actually need to handle live wires.

--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://www.gdunge.com/>

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[Bill Dube]

Let us not allow "perfect" to interfere with "good enough". What we
need to keep firmly in mind is that most folks wear _nothing_ on
their hands when working with live packs and EV traction wiring.

The blue nitrile mechanic's gloves (Smurf gloves) are 100 times
better than bare hands. They are inexpensive and are not
uncomfortable to wear. They don't interfere with your dexterity. They
are available in every hardware store. You can get them at Walmart.

You can think up more "perfect" protection, but it is expensive,
cumbersome, and generally so inconvenient that folks will "skip it"
unless forced to comply. The safest solution is to never get out of
bed and never do anything. All safety equipment is a compromise. (See
"bear-proof suit".)

Like condoms, the Smurf gloves do not offer perfect protection. They
are much, much, much better than nothing. They _help_ protect from
the plasma flash. They cover your skin and will greatly reduce the
amount of metal vapor deposition on your skin. They will prevent 99%
of the shocks you would get with bare hands. (This alone will prevent
99% of the injuries because you jump or jerk and injure yourself.)
You will be much better off wearing the Smurf gloves than not. If you
have ever touched a hot exhaust manifold (or a drop light bulb) with
the back of your hand when wearing Smurf gloves, you fully appreciate
the additional (but limited) burn protection you get.

Like condoms, it would be much safer if you did not touch anything,
ever. They are an imperfect, but easy and practical solution that
offers a _lot_ of protection for a small effort and low cost.

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[stub-2]

Search tools.
The pliers are usable but flex a little, the needle nose version is useless. I haven't tried the ratchet but I'd guess it to be strong enough for battery terminals.

Stub
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Willmon <[hidden email]>

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:10:39
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'<[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event"


One thing I am wanting to do for my Junior racer is get some of those plastic (composite) tools, like the composite ratchet and open
end wrenches.  Has anyone ever played with any of those?  Most of the stuff the Junior has to use does not take that much torque so
the plastic tools should be fine.  They are plastic handles with the metal inserts for the ends.  I saw some of the plastic ratchets
a while back but don't remember where to get them.  Does any one know?

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of gary
> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 5:53 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event"
>
>
> thanks for the safety reminder Bill, we can't repeat this too often.
> I've added a couple comments ...
> >
> > 1) _Always_ wear those blue nitrile mechanic's gloves when working on
> > the battery pack or the high-current wiring of your EV.
> >
> >
> - or even better - lineman's gloves.  much thicker and rated for the big
> HV ($40 grainger).  optional leather covers ($40).
> > 4) Take a few extra moments to tape up the metal surfaces of the
> > tool. Then cover surrounding exposed parts with a heavy cloth, rubber
> > matt, blue painter's tape, insulating board, etc.
> >
> - careful!  a quick wrap of electrical tape might not insulate HV.
> Better than nothing but maybe use thicker pipe insulation, rubber sheet,
> etc.
>
> Gary Krysztopik
> www.ZWheelz.com
> www.aceaa.org
> San Antonio, TX
>
>
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[Toby B]

... and of course, they keep your hands clean and free of carcinogenic
substances...
which is why I wear them working on the stinkier cars, too...

Toby

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Bill Dube <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Let us not allow "perfect" to interfere with "good enough". What we
> need to keep firmly in mind is that most folks wear _nothing_ on
> their hands when working with live packs and EV traction wiring.
>
> The blue nitrile mechanic's gloves (Smurf gloves) are 100 times
> better than bare hands. They are inexpensive and are not
> uncomfortable to wear. They don't interfere with your dexterity. They
> are available in every hardware store. You can get them at Walmart.
>
> You can think up more "perfect" protection, but it is expensive,
> cumbersome, and generally so inconvenient that folks will "skip it"
> unless forced to comply. The safest solution is to never get out of
> bed and never do anything. All safety equipment is a compromise. (See
> "bear-proof suit".)
>
> Like condoms, the Smurf gloves do not offer perfect protection. They
> are much, much, much better than nothing. They _help_ protect from
> the plasma flash. They cover your skin and will greatly reduce the
> amount of metal vapor deposition on your skin. They will prevent 99%
> of the shocks you would get with bare hands. (This alone will prevent
> 99% of the injuries because you jump or jerk and injure yourself.)
> You will be much better off wearing the Smurf gloves than not. If you
> have ever touched a hot exhaust manifold (or a drop light bulb) with
> the back of your hand when wearing Smurf gloves, you fully appreciate
> the additional (but limited) burn protection you get.
>
> Like condoms, it would be much safer if you did not touch anything,
> ever. They are an imperfect, but easy and practical solution that
> offers a _lot_ of protection for a small effort and low cost.
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

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[Thos True]

Hello All,
While I agree that the blue nitrile gloves are a solution, my experience
tells me that they are extremely prone to tearing with the slightest nick.
This voids your effort for protection. What I wear for the wiring process is
a thin rubber coated cotton glove made by Atlas. I am not talking about the
thick blue ones, rather the thin, grey ones. They seem a bit clunky at
first, but one can easily manipulate nuts, bolts and washers while wearing
them. They also have a slightly sticky quality to them that helps to inhibit
the ocaisional dropping of such parts.
Just

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Bill Dube <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Let us not allow "perfect" to interfere with "good enough". What we
> need to keep firmly in mind is that most folks wear _nothing_ on
> their hands when working with live packs and EV traction wiring.
>
> The blue nitrile mechanic's gloves (Smurf gloves) are 100 times
> better than bare hands. They are inexpensive and are not
> uncomfortable to wear. They don't interfere with your dexterity. They
> are available in every hardware store. You can get them at Walmart.
>
> You can think up more "perfect" protection, but it is expensive,
> cumbersome, and generally so inconvenient that folks will "skip it"
> unless forced to comply. The safest solution is to never get out of
> bed and never do anything. All safety equipment is a compromise. (See
> "bear-proof suit".)
>
> Like condoms, the Smurf gloves do not offer perfect protection. They
> are much, much, much better than nothing. They _help_ protect from
> the plasma flash. They cover your skin and will greatly reduce the
> amount of metal vapor deposition on your skin. They will prevent 99%
> of the shocks you would get with bare hands. (This alone will prevent
> 99% of the injuries because you jump or jerk and injure yourself.)
> You will be much better off wearing the Smurf gloves than not. If you
> have ever touched a hot exhaust manifold (or a drop light bulb) with
> the back of your hand when wearing Smurf gloves, you fully appreciate
> the additional (but limited) burn protection you get.
>
> Like condoms, it would be much safer if you did not touch anything,
> ever. They are an imperfect, but easy and practical solution that
> offers a _lot_ of protection for a small effort and low cost.
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

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[Thos True]

The final sentence was to read " Just my $.02 worth" -Thos

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 10:14 PM, Thos True <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello All,
> While I agree that the blue nitrile gloves are a solution, my experience
> tells me that they are extremely prone to tearing with the slightest nick.
> This voids your effort for protection. What I wear for the wiring process is
> a thin rubber coated cotton glove made by Atlas. I am not talking about the
> thick blue ones, rather the thin, grey ones. They seem a bit clunky at
> first, but one can easily manipulate nuts, bolts and washers while wearing
> them. They also have a slightly sticky quality to them that helps to inhibit
> the ocaisional dropping of such parts.
> Just
>
> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Bill Dube <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Let us not allow "perfect" to interfere with "good enough". What we
>> need to keep firmly in mind is that most folks wear _nothing_ on
>> their hands when working with live packs and EV traction wiring.
>>
>> The blue nitrile mechanic's gloves (Smurf gloves) are 100 times
>> better than bare hands. They are inexpensive and are not
>> uncomfortable to wear. They don't interfere with your dexterity. They
>> are available in every hardware store. You can get them at Walmart.
>>
>> You can think up more "perfect" protection, but it is expensive,
>> cumbersome, and generally so inconvenient that folks will "skip it"
>> unless forced to comply. The safest solution is to never get out of
>> bed and never do anything. All safety equipment is a compromise. (See
>> "bear-proof suit".)
>>
>> Like condoms, the Smurf gloves do not offer perfect protection. They
>> are much, much, much better than nothing. They _help_ protect from
>> the plasma flash. They cover your skin and will greatly reduce the
>> amount of metal vapor deposition on your skin. They will prevent 99%
>> of the shocks you would get with bare hands. (This alone will prevent
>> 99% of the injuries because you jump or jerk and injure yourself.)
>> You will be much better off wearing the Smurf gloves than not. If you
>> have ever touched a hot exhaust manifold (or a drop light bulb) with
>> the back of your hand when wearing Smurf gloves, you fully appreciate
>> the additional (but limited) burn protection you get.
>>
>> Like condoms, it would be much safer if you did not touch anything,
>> ever. They are an imperfect, but easy and practical solution that
>> offers a _lot_ of protection for a small effort and low cost.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
>> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>

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[Adrian DeLeon]

Ditto the Atlas gloves. They work great for woodworking, too! Thin enough  
to get a good feel (and get a bit thinner as you use them), and don't get  
your hands as hot and sweaty as the "other" rubberized gloves.

I also find that my ring wears through the back quickly if I don't take it  
off.

I use the ATLAS® Nitrile TOUGH® 370BBK (I think)

http://www.atlasgloveconsumerproducts.com/lightweight.html

On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:14:12 -0700, Thos True <[hidden email]> wrote:

> What I wear for the wiring process is
> a thin rubber coated cotton glove made by Atlas. I am not talking about  
> the
> thick blue ones, rather the thin, grey ones. They seem a bit clunky at
> first, but one can easily manipulate nuts, bolts and washers while  
> wearing
> them. They also have a slightly sticky quality to them that helps to  
> inhibit
> the ocaisional dropping of such parts.

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