Need equipment help from you

[Michael Hundrieser]

Hello everybody,
since I did a lot of comparison and test, I want to ask you for an advice.
The 3 following systems are on the list:

4 shots leveld for a full sphere , NPP-adaptor: Nodal Ninja 3

1. Canon 40D with Sigma 8mm
2. Canon 5D with Tokina 10-17 (or Nikon 10 -> both have to be shaved)
3. Ninon D300 with Sigma 8

I am using a D80 with Sigma 8 now and I am not stisfied with the noise
of the camera. ISO 200 goes well but 400  is already unaccaptable.
All images I saw where camera-jpgs - so not really  a true
competition, and the RAW I got where not so much better than mine (40D
RAWs).

Like Hans and Michel stated: the Tokina is remakable sharp - i would
prefer this lens instead of the Nikon 10.

So I am standing here a little confused and don´t know where to go.
The 5D is a little heavy for the NN3 - but will work I guess.

Can someone help me ??

Thank you
Ciao
Mike

[Hans-74]

--- In [hidden email], "mhc954" <ptgroup@...> wrote:

>
> Hello everybody,
> since I did a lot of comparison and test, I want to ask you for an advice.
> The 3 following systems are on the list:
>
> 4 shots leveld for a full sphere , NPP-adaptor: Nodal Ninja 3
>
> 1. Canon 40D with Sigma 8mm
> 2. Canon 5D with Tokina 10-17 (or Nikon 10 -> both have to be shaved)
> 3. Ninon D300 with Sigma 8
>
> I am using a D80 with Sigma 8 now and I am not stisfied with the noise
> of the camera. ISO 200 goes well but 400  is already unaccaptable.
> All images I saw where camera-jpgs - so not really  a true
> competition, and the RAW I got where not so much better than mine (40D
> RAWs).
>
> Like Hans and Michel stated: the Tokina is remakable sharp - i would
> prefer this lens instead of the Nikon 10.
>
> So I am standing here a little confused and don´t know where to go.
> The 5D is a little heavy for the NN3 - but will work I guess.

The quality of the D300 panoramas I have seen are remarkable.
If the Sigma 8mm you have is the new 3,5 I would without doubt get it.

I guess I get one myself at some time to use with my Nikon 10,5  even if I now use the
Canon 5D.

You can always get a Tokina 10-17mm and use it as a fullframe for super quality. Its very
cheap in Germany only 510 Euro while the Nikon 10.5 is 679 at Amazon.de.

I assume you have seen Werner's panotamas with the 300D
Check these once made with the 300D + Nikkor 10.5mm. 1000ASA
http://www.panoramajournal.ch/sportticketsevents/eishockeyturnier/spenglercupdavos/
spenglercupteams/index.html

Hans

[Thomas Krueger]

The Canon 5D with Tokina 10-17 should be actually the one of the best
combinations (with a decent price tag). Using it on a monopod you are
more flexible taking the pictures. A lens ring like from Bophoto.com
or from Agnos.com is better as the NodalNinja.

For bigger resolutions you can always use the Tokina as a full frame
fisheye at 15mm on a tripod with a pano head.

Thomas

[Michael Hundrieser]

Yes Hans: the new Sigma 8mm 3.5.
The panos I´ve seen from the D300 where remakable yes.
The price for me is not the most important:

D300 with no lenses neede - because I have these already

5D with Tokina 10

40D with Sigma 8/3.5

The 40D combination looks the cheapest - but I don´t want to change
again. So if the Nikon D300 would come out better - that would be the
choice.

Thomas advices the 5D with the Tokina 10-17.
Yes it´s the most flexible combination.
But:
Are the images  better then 40D/Simga 8 ??? or D300/Sigma 8 ??

There is little - if even any- difference between the images at all.
Because of their newer sensors & processes 40D & D300 reach the 5D already
as I´ve seen.

Does the 5D do better in higher ISO then the 40D or D300 ?
I did not see this - they look quite the same to me.

Ciao
Mike
http://www.360de.de

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[AYRTON - avi]

On 2/13/08, Hans Nyberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> The quality of the D300 panoramas I have seen are remarkable.
> If the Sigma 8mm you have is the new 3,5 I would without doubt get it.



I just did a job last night for a Client here in Brazil
Iand used for the first time my D300, that my good friend Willy sold to me
 :-)

This was the fisrt time ever shooting with it, clicks beginnig at 0001

D300 + Sigma 8mm / f:4  (the old and good one)

4 shots w/ 5 degrees tilted up
on a monopod handmade and Bo bracket on the lens
and the ISO ....
was 2000 !!!   :-)

<http://ayrton.com/360>

look for the two posts on top of page; a Carnival happening inside a big
Shooping Center in Rio.


Since all was in a hurry, I've exported the RAW files as 8 bits only.

Cheers

AYRTON



I guess I get one myself at some time to use with my Nikon 10,5  even if I

> now use the
> Canon 5D.
>
> You can always get a Tokina 10-17mm and use it as a fullframe for super
> quality. Its very
> cheap in Germany only 510 Euro while the Nikon 10.5 is 679 at Amazon.de.
>
> I assume you have seen Werner's panotamas with the 300D
> Check these once made with the 300D + Nikkor 10.5mm. 1000ASA
>
> http://www.panoramajournal.ch/sportticketsevents/eishockeyturnier/spenglercupdavos/
> spenglercupteams/index.html
>
>
> Hans
>
>
>
> --
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--
A   Y   R   T   O   N
+ 55 21 9982.6313

http://rio360.com.br
   http://vrfolio.com
   http://ayrton.com
http://rio.360cities.net


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Luca Vascon]

I'd go for 5D successor+Tokina+Agnos ring. I'm trying the new Sigma 10
and it is good, asap I'll post some pictures done with it.
D300 Nikon is a VERY good camera, quite no sensor noise. However I'm
happy with 40D Canon.
NN3 is a good head, but I'd keep it with more lightweight cameras.
However at its limits it holds 40D, for 5D the RING is the best solution.
I use it also for 8 shots fullframe fisheye workflow, without the need
of a moving head or similar.


mhc954 ha scritto:

>
> Hello everybody,
> since I did a lot of comparison and test, I want to ask you for an advice.
> The 3 following systems are on the list:
>
> 4 shots leveld for a full sphere , NPP-adaptor: Nodal Ninja 3
>
> 1. Canon 40D with Sigma 8mm
> 2. Canon 5D with Tokina 10-17 (or Nikon 10 -> both have to be shaved)
> 3. Ninon D300 with Sigma 8
>
> I am using a D80 with Sigma 8 now and I am not stisfied with the noise
> of the camera. ISO 200 goes well but 400 is already unaccaptable.
> All images I saw where camera-jpgs - so not really a true
> competition, and the RAW I got where not so much better than mine (40D
> RAWs).
>
> Like Hans and Michel stated: the Tokina is remakable sharp - i would
> prefer this lens instead of the Nikon 10.
>
> So I am standing here a little confused and don´t know where to go.
> The 5D is a little heavy for the NN3 - but will work I guess.
>
> Can someone help me ??
>
> Thank you
> Ciao
> Mike
>
>  

[Michael Hundrieser]

Ayrton: ISO 2000 !
Looks like ISO 400  on my Nikon D80 !

Did you use NR in the camera or RAW- Converter ?
If : how much ?

Guess the 40D looks not so much differnet though !


Ciao
Mike

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15:20


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Hans-74]

--- In [hidden email], "ptgroup" <ptgroup@...> wrote:
>
> Ayrton: ISO 2000 !
> Looks like ISO 400  on my Nikon D80 !
>
> Did you use NR in the camera or RAW- Converter ?
> If : how much ?
>
> Guess the 40D looks not so much differnet though !

You can judge it here
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/D300/D300hSLI3200.HTM

D40
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E40D/FULLRES/E40DhSLI3200.HTM

D300
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/D300/FULLRES/D300hSLI3200.HTM

Hans

[Michael Hundrieser]

Thanks Hans for the hint,
I looked @ imaging-resource and compared their images.

On their side the D80 makes as good as the 40D.

So it doesn´t make any sense changing from a D80 to a 40D -
only to D300.
That´s unfortunately the most expensive change.

Thaks again.
Ciao
Mike

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15:20


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Luca Vascon]

Well, I've used both.
Nikon D80 is a shit over 400 iso.
40D is my current camera, and is DAMN GOOD.
14 real bits, no noise at 1600 iso.
The only confront is Nikon D300.

http://venice.360cities.net/fs.html?loc=10mm-sigma-test.p36

HDR and enfused. Wait 15 minutes our system to create the image...

ptgroup ha scritto:

>
> Thanks Hans for the hint,
> I looked @ imaging-resource and compared their images.
>
> On their side the D80 makes as good as the 40D.
>
> So it doesn´t make any sense changing from a D80 to a 40D -
> only to D300.
> That´s unfortunately the most expensive change.
>
> Thaks again.
> Ciao
> Mike
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1275 - Release Date:
> 12.02.2008
> 15:20
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  

[AYRTON - avi]

On 2/13/08, ptgroup <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Ayrton: ISO 2000 !
> Looks like ISO 400  on my Nikon D80 !


I know.
I do have a D80 too  :-)


Did you use NR in the camera or RAW- Converter ?
> If : how much ?


10
only


Guess the 40D looks not so much differnet though !



Nikon forever  :-)

[ ]s
AYRTON


Ciao
> Mike
>
> A   Y   R   T   O   N
+ 55 21 9982.6313

http://rio360.com.br
   http://vrfolio.com
   http://ayrton.com
http://rio.360cities.net


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Bill Bailey]

Hi Michael,
With respect to NN3 it will support the 5D just fine - it's good up to approx 3.5 kgs (7lbs) in weight. It can go a bit more with a bit more tightening on the upper rotator with compression lock. NN5L has no limitation with this equipment (shameless plug - sorry).
On the Tokina 10-17mm lens - if doing full 360x180 panos, this lens only allows for partial tilt up (about 45 degrees). To shoot the zenith (up shot) with this lens you will either need to move the camera/lens forward on the upper rail to allow for full rotation or simply shoot manually. You could also shoot two rows - one row at approx. 30 degree tilt down and one row with approx. 30 degree tilt up to catch the zenith. Others in the forum may actually have other other techiques. For most this is not a big deal with this lens.
Just thought I would add this to the thread - we want you to feel secure NN3 will work fine with your equipment.

Cheers
Bill

Michael Hundrieser wrote:

Hello everybody,
since I did a lot of comparison and test, I want to ask you for an advice.
The 3 following systems are on the list:

4 shots leveld for a full sphere , NPP-adaptor: Nodal Ninja 3

1. Canon 40D with Sigma 8mm
2. Canon 5D with Tokina 10-17 (or Nikon 10 -> both have to be shaved)
3. Ninon D300 with Sigma 8

I am using a D80 with Sigma 8 now and I am not stisfied with the noise
of the camera. ISO 200 goes well but 400  is already unaccaptable.
All images I saw where camera-jpgs - so not really  a true
competition, and the RAW I got where not so much better than mine (40D
RAWs).

Like Hans and Michel stated: the Tokina is remakable sharp - i would
prefer this lens instead of the Nikon 10.

So I am standing here a little confused and don´t know where to go.
The 5D is a little heavy for the NN3 - but will work I guess.

Can someone help me ??

Thank you
Ciao
Mike

[Luca Vascon]

Yes NN3 does not have any playload problem (however I would not overpass
the 2 kg on it, that actually are quite enough) but the "limit" I
intended are dimensions, in this case the 5d is quite big.
The impression I have owning a NN3 is it can be used beyond its intended
target, that is from compact cameras to mid-sized reflex.
But to use it on a D5 I would get NN5 without esitation.

Bill Bailey ha scritto:

>
>
> Hi Michael,
> With respect to NN3 it will support the 5D just fine - it's good up to
> approx 3.5 kgs (7lbs) in weight.
> On the Tokina 10-17mm lens - if doing full 360x180 panos, this lens only
> allows for partial tilt up (about 45 degrees). To shoot the zenith (up
> shot)
> with this lens you will either need to move the camera/lens forward on the
> upper rail to allow for full rotation or simply shoot manually. You could
> also shoot two rows - one row at approx. 30 degree tilt down and one row
> with approx. 30 degree tilt up to catch the zenith. Others in the
> forum may
> actually have other other techiques. For most this is not a big deal with
> this lens.
> Just thought I would add this to the thread - we want you to feel
> secure NN3
> will work fine with your equipment.
>
> Cheers
> Bill
>
> Michael Hundrieser wrote:
> >
> > Hello everybody,
> > since I did a lot of comparison and test, I want to ask you for an
> advice.
> > The 3 following systems are on the list:
> >
> > 4 shots leveld for a full sphere , NPP-adaptor: Nodal Ninja 3
> >
> > 1. Canon 40D with Sigma 8mm
> > 2. Canon 5D with Tokina 10-17 (or Nikon 10 -> both have to be shaved)
> > 3. Ninon D300 with Sigma 8
> >
> > I am using a D80 with Sigma 8 now and I am not stisfied with the noise
> > of the camera. ISO 200 goes well but 400 is already unaccaptable.
> > All images I saw where camera-jpgs - so not really a true
> > competition, and the RAW I got where not so much better than mine (40D
> > RAWs).
> >
> > Like Hans and Michel stated: the Tokina is remakable sharp - i would
> > prefer this lens instead of the Nikon 10.
> >
> > So I am standing here a little confused and don´t know where to go.
> > The 5D is a little heavy for the NN3 - but will work I guess.
> >
> > Can someone help me ??
> >
> > Thank you
> > Ciao
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Need-equipment-help-from-you-tp15455043p15474112.html 
> <http://www.nabble.com/Need-equipment-help-from-you-tp15455043p15474112.html>
> Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>  

[Michael Hundrieser]

Luca & Ayrton:
yes - I can´t use more than 200 ISo also.
When you talk about 1600ISO I assume you talk about RAW files ??
Do you use the supplied RAW converter ?
Your opinion means a lot to me.

If you compare all the cameras in the internet - even imagin-resource- you
won´t see it that much.
There the 40D is about the D80 ???!!! and only the D300 makes it better.
But mostly you can see that it´s because of NR - which works great though .

http://www.360de.de


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[AYRTON - avi]

On 2/14/08, ptgroup <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Luca & Ayrton:
> yes - I can´t use more than 200 ISo also.
> When you talk about 1600ISO I assume you talk about RAW files ??



I shoot RAW always

Do you use the supplied RAW converter ?



PS CS3

AYRTON



Your opinion means a lot to me.

>
> If you compare all the cameras in the internet - even imagin-resource- you
> won´t see it that much.
> There the 40D is about the D80 ???!!! and only the D300 makes it better.
> But mostly you can see that it´s because of NR - which works great though
> .
>
> http://www.360de.de
>
>
>   Recent Activity
>     a..  6New Members
>   Visit Your Group
>   New business?
>   Get new customers.
>
>   List your web site
>
>   in Yahoo! Search.
>
>   Drive Traffic
>   Sponsored Search
>
>   can help increase
>
>   your site traffic.
>
>   Best of Y! Groups
>   Check it out
>
>   and nominate your
>
>   group to be featured.
>
>   .
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1275 - Release Date:
> 12.02.2008
> 15:20
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> --
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--
A   Y   R   T   O   N
+ 55 21 9982.6313

http://rio360.com.br
   http://vrfolio.com
   http://ayrton.com
http://rio.360cities.net


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Luca Vascon]

I shoot RAW+jpg. Sometimes JPGs are so good that I keep them and use
them. Especially if it is MASS work.
For good jobs I shoot RAW+small JPG. Windows browsing system does not
open 40D files.
I use Silkypix and ACR. Without any sharpening filter or noise
cancelling. I sometimes apply sharpening to the very final images.
1600 iso are usable with the camera jpgs.
Nevereverever tried Canon own software.
Should I?

ptgroup ha scritto:

>
> Luca & Ayrton:
> yes - I can´t use more than 200 ISo also.
> When you talk about 1600ISO I assume you talk about RAW files ??
> Do you use the supplied RAW converter ?
> Your opinion means a lot to me.
>
> If you compare all the cameras in the internet - even imagin-resource- you
> won´t see it that much.
> There the 40D is about the D80 ???!!! and only the D300 makes it better.
> But mostly you can see that it´s because of NR - which works great
> though .
>
> http://www.360de.de <http://www.360de.de>
>
> Recent Activity
> a.. 6New Members
> Visit Your Group
> New business?
> Get new customers.
>
> List your web site
>
> in Yahoo! Search.
>
> Drive Traffic
> Sponsored Search
>
> can help increase
>
> your site traffic.
>
> Best of Y! Groups
> Check it out
>
> and nominate your
>
> group to be featured.
> .
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1275 - Release Date:
> 12.02.2008
> 15:20
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  

[Michael Hundrieser]

Luca/Bill/Ayrton:

Thanks for you help.
Changing to Canon keeps the 5D door still open though.
NN3 will do with the 40D  & 5D then without question and the images will be with significant lower noise (this I only hope
because comparisons does not prove it)

So let´s go - have to do some fotos  :-)

Thanks you all for helping
Ciao
Mike
http://www.360de.de
 
 
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[Brian-221]

Hi Luca,

 

When you say “Windows browsing system does not open 40D files” do you mean
you can’t view the RAW images in Explorer?

If so you could try the plug-in below, it’s free:

 

http://www.arcsoft.com/products/rawviewer/

 

I have a 40D and with this I can view RAW thumbnails really quickly.

 

Brian.

 

  _____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Luca Vascon
Sent: 14 February 2008 09:04
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: AW: AW: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Need equipment help from you

 

I shoot RAW+jpg. Sometimes JPGs are so good that I keep them and use
them. Especially if it is MASS work.
For good jobs I shoot RAW+small JPG. Windows browsing system does not
open 40D files.
I use Silkypix and ACR. Without any sharpening filter or noise
cancelling. I sometimes apply sharpening to the very final images.
1600 iso are usable with the camera jpgs.
Nevereverever tried Canon own software.
Should I?

ptgroup ha scritto:

>
> Luca & Ayrton:
> yes - I can´t use more than 200 ISo also.
> When you talk about 1600ISO I assume you talk about RAW files ??
> Do you use the supplied RAW converter ?
> Your opinion means a lot to me.
>
> If you compare all the cameras in the internet - even imagin-resource- you
> won´t see it that much.
> There the 40D is about the D80 ???!!! and only the D300 makes it better.
> But mostly you can see that it´s because of NR - which works great
> though .
>
> http://www.360de. <http://www.360de.de> de <http://www.360de.

<http://www.360de.de> de>

>
> Recent Activity
> a.. 6New Members
> Visit Your Group
> New business?
> Get new customers.
>
> List your web site
>
> in Yahoo! Search.
>
> Drive Traffic
> Sponsored Search
>
> can help increase
>
> your site traffic.
>
> Best of Y! Groups
> Check it out
>
> and nominate your
>
> group to be featured.
> .
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1275 - Release Date:
> 12.02.2008
> 15:20
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Bjørn K Nilssen]

On 14 Feb 2008 at 9:28, Brian Thomas wrote:

>
> When you say "Windows browsing system does not open 40D files" do you mean
> you can´t view the RAW images in Explorer?
>
> If so you could try the plug-in below, it´s free:
>
> http://www.arcsoft.com/products/rawviewer/

Nice tip:)
Is there anything similar for HDR and EXR files?
They don't show in AcDSee :(

--
Bjørn K Nilssen - http://bknilssen.no - panoramas and 3D

[Keith Martin-2]

Sometime around 13/2/08 (at 23:08 +0100) Luca Vascon said:

>The only confront is Nikon D300.

And the Fuji S5Pro :-)

Shot in RAW at 1600ISO, with just a small touch of noise reduction:
http://www.panoramapostcards.co.uk/vr/leicestersquare.html

k