Sigma 4.5mm on FourThirds or MFT (using adapter etc)?

[bohonus]

Has anyone paired these two yet? If so, any example images? I can't locate anything like it online.

I don't know what the image circle size is on the Sigma 4.5mm, but from looking at APS-C & FourThirds sensor sizes, it looks as though it may give me something comparable to what you would get using the Sigma 8mm on a DX sensor Nikon. Meaning, full 180 from top to bottom with a slight crop of the circle on the sides. They have adapters to put Nikon/Canon etc on MFT and I thought this might be a nice mini VR option for my GF1.

[Roger D. Williams]

On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 07:05:34 +0900, bohonus <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Has anyone paired these two yet? If so, any example images? I can't  
> locate anything like it online.
>
> I don't know what the image circle size is on the Sigma 4.5mm, but from  
> looking at APS-C & FourThirds sensor sizes, it looks as though it may  
> give me something comparable to what you would get using the Sigma 8mm  
> on a DX sensor Nikon. Meaning, full 180 from top to bottom with a slight  
> crop of the circle on the sides. They have adapters to put Nikon/Canon  
> etc on MFT and I thought this might be a nice mini VR option for my GF1.

I had this thought when the GF1 and "PEN" came out. But the Sigma 4.5mm
is a rather expensive lens for my budget, I don't want a third camera as
well as my Fuji S5 and Nikon D300, and would be reluctant to dump either
of them. If I were starting over again, I might go for it.

However, I have an "early adopter" friend who bought the PEN and he
found it had a noticeably narrower dynamic range, which is less than
ideal for panoramas. So if you are thinking of getting the PEN + Sigma
4.5mm lens, it would be worth trying it out first.

Roger

--
Business: www.adex-japan.com
Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger

[Hans-74]

--- In [hidden email], "bohonus" <bradford@...> wrote:
>
> Has anyone paired these two yet? If so, any example images? I can't locate anything like it online.
>
> I don't know what the image circle size is on the Sigma 4.5mm, but from looking at APS-C & FourThirds sensor sizes, it looks as though it may give me something comparable to what you would get using the Sigma 8mm on a DX sensor Nikon. Meaning, full 180 from top to bottom with a slight crop of the circle on the sides. They have adapters to put Nikon/Canon etc on MFT and I thought this might be a nice mini VR option for my GF1.
>

Have also been looking at the GF for a light weight VR solution
BUT

Sigma 4.5
Dimensions Diameter 76.2mm X Length 77.8mm
3.0 in. X 3.1 in.
Weight 470g/16.6 oz.
GF1  285 g+battery
119 mm x 71 mm x 36.3 mm (4.69 x 2.8 x 1.43 inches)

That makes around 800 gr
Price $899 +999 + adapter

Pentax K-x  512 g + battery 122.5mm x 91.5mm x 67.5mm (4.8 x 3.6 x 2.7 in)
Pentax 10-17 Weight: 11.3 oz. (320g)
Thats around 880 g with battery
Price $649 +525

Pentax with built in 3 shot HDR from 3 bracketed images
Quality superior to the GF1 for sure.

What would you choose.?

Hans

[DemonDuck]

I've read that the Pen is basically an Olympus e620 --
for whatever that's worth...

Roger D. Williams wrote:

> However, I have an "early adopter" friend who bought the PEN and he
> found it had a noticeably narrower dynamic range, which is less than
> ideal for panoramas. So if you are thinking of getting the PEN + Sigma
> 4.5mm lens, it would be worth trying it out first.
>
> Roger
>

[Roger D. Williams]

On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 08:24:17 +0900, Ken Warner <[hidden email]>  
wrote:

> I've read that the Pen is basically an Olympus e620 --
> for whatever that's worth...
>
> Roger D. Williams wrote:
>
>> However, I have an "early adopter" friend who bought the PEN and he
>> found it had a noticeably narrower dynamic range, which is less than
>> ideal for panoramas. So if you are thinking of getting the PEN + Sigma
>> 4.5mm lens, it would be worth trying it out first.

Hmmm. Not worth much, I feel. They might well have used some of the same
working parts (foolish not to) but the form factor and user
experience are quite dissimilar.

Roger W.

--
Business: www.adex-japan.com
Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger

[bohonus]

--- In [hidden email], "Hans" <hans@...> wrote:

> Have also been looking at the GF for a light weight VR solution
> BUT
>
> Sigma 4.5
> Dimensions Diameter 76.2mm X Length 77.8mm
> 3.0 in. X 3.1 in.
> Weight 470g/16.6 oz.
> GF1  285 g+battery
> 119 mm x 71 mm x 36.3 mm (4.69 x 2.8 x 1.43 inches)
>
> That makes around 800 gr
> Price $899 +999 + adapter
>
> Pentax K-x  512 g + battery 122.5mm x 91.5mm x 67.5mm (4.8 x 3.6 x 2.7 in)
> Pentax 10-17 Weight: 11.3 oz. (320g)
> Thats around 880 g with battery
> Price $649 +525
>
> Pentax with built in 3 shot HDR from 3 bracketed images
> Quality superior to the GF1 for sure.
>
> What would you choose.?
>
> Hans

Don't forget to consider the nice lenses (e.g. Leica etc) that you can now use with the GF1.

[DemonDuck]

You mentioned dynamic range as your concern.  Wouldn't the dynamic
range be the same as the e620?

Roger D. Williams wrote:

> On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 08:24:17 +0900, Ken Warner <[hidden email]>  
> wrote:
>
>> I've read that the Pen is basically an Olympus e620 --
>> for whatever that's worth...
>>
>> Roger D. Williams wrote:
>>
>>> However, I have an "early adopter" friend who bought the PEN and he
>>> found it had a noticeably narrower dynamic range, which is less than
>>> ideal for panoramas. So if you are thinking of getting the PEN + Sigma
>>> 4.5mm lens, it would be worth trying it out first.
>
> Hmmm. Not worth much, I feel. They might well have used some of the same
> working parts (foolish not to) but the form factor and user
> experience are quite dissimilar.
>
> Roger W.
>

[bohonus]

--- In [hidden email], "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...> wrote:

> However, I have an "early adopter" friend who bought the PEN and he
> found it had a noticeably narrower dynamic range, which is less than
> ideal for panoramas. So if you are thinking of getting the PEN + Sigma
> 4.5mm lens, it would be worth trying it out first.
>
> Roger

I got the GF1 as a carry-around camera and also to use on a Gigapan unit. I thought it could be nice if I could also use it to knock off a quick handheld or monopod pano when I don't have my "regular" vr gear with me.

[Hans-74]

--- In [hidden email], "bohonus" <bradford@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> --- In [hidden email], "Hans" <hans@> wrote:
> > Have also been looking at the GF for a light weight VR solution
> > BUT
> >
> > Sigma 4.5
> > Dimensions Diameter 76.2mm X Length 77.8mm
> > 3.0 in. X 3.1 in.
> > Weight 470g/16.6 oz.
> > GF1  285 g+battery
> > 119 mm x 71 mm x 36.3 mm (4.69 x 2.8 x 1.43 inches)
> >
> > That makes around 800 gr
> > Price $899 +999 + adapter
> >
> > Pentax K-x  512 g + battery 122.5mm x 91.5mm x 67.5mm (4.8 x 3.6 x 2.7 in)
> > Pentax 10-17 Weight: 11.3 oz. (320g)
> > Thats around 880 g with battery
> > Price $649 +525
> >
> > Pentax with built in 3 shot HDR from 3 bracketed images
> > Quality superior to the GF1 for sure.
> >
> > What would you choose.?
> >
> > Hans
>
> Don't forget to consider the nice lenses (e.g. Leica etc) that you can now use with the GF1.
>

Leitz on Pentax
http://www.leitax.com/

Hans

[Roger D. Williams]

On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:13:57 +0900, bohonus <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> --- In [hidden email], "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...>  
> wrote:
>
>> However, I have an "early adopter" friend who bought the PEN and he
>> found it had a noticeably narrower dynamic range, which is less than
>> ideal for panoramas. So if you are thinking of getting the PEN + Sigma
>> 4.5mm lens, it would be worth trying it out first.
>>
>> Roger
>
> I got the GF1 as a carry-around camera and also to use on a Gigapan  
> unit. I thought it could be nice if I could also use it to knock off a  
> quick handheld or monopod pano when I don't have my "regular" vr gear  
> with me.

That makes sense. The FL 2x multiplier is actually a help when it comes
to making Gigapanoramas. I am more tempted by the higher-end P&S cameras
for a carry-around camera. I used to use my Sharp mobile camera which
was quite adequate for the job; it had a 28mm equivalent lens and let
me tweak exposures, etc. But the iPhone (which I love for different
reasons) just isn't up to it.

Do you find that the GF1 has a narrow dynamic range, as my friend did
with the PEN?

Roger W

--
Business: www.adex-japan.com
Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger

[Bjørn K Nilssen]

On 3 Nov 2009 at 0:13, bohonus wrote:

>
>
> --- In [hidden email], "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...> wrote:
>
> > However, I have an "early adopter" friend who bought the PEN and he
> > found it had a noticeably narrower dynamic range, which is less than
> > ideal for panoramas. So if you are thinking of getting the PEN + Sigma
> > 4.5mm lens, it would be worth trying it out first.
> >
> > Roger
>
> I got the GF1 as a carry-around camera and also to use on a Gigapan unit. I thought it
> could be nice if I could also use it to knock off a quick handheld or monopod pano
> when I don't have my "regular" vr gear with me.

There is also this Sunex fisheye http://www.superfisheye.com/ to consider
Might be a good choice?
Here's a white paper on using it on th E-P1
http://www.sytsma.com/sunextest/sunexonep1.pdf
Looks good to me!
And it's a very compact solution with the rotator from Sunex and a monopod.

--
Bjørn K Nilssen - http://bknilssen.no - panoramas and 3D

[Roger D. Williams]

On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 08:54:41 +0900, bohonus <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Don't forget to consider the nice lenses (e.g. Leica etc) that you can  
> now use with the GF1.

Now there's a point I'd forgotten! I have several very nice Leica-mount
Cosina lenses, astonishingly good value and beautiful image quality
that worked well for me when I used only rangefinder/film cameras. It
would be nice to give them a second lease of life. But my favourite
21mm would become a 42mm equivalent, and that's way up in the telephoto
range for me. <grin>

But the adapters cost as much as I used to pay for lenses... <sad smile>

Roger W.


--
Business: www.adex-japan.com
Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger

[Roger D. Williams]

Oh I see, Ken. I didn't understand your suggestion. Yes, of course you're
right on that. If they use the same innards they would presumably suffer
 from the same limitations.

Roger W.

On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:03:37 +0900, Ken Warner <[hidden email]>  
wrote:

> You mentioned dynamic range as your concern.  Wouldn't the dynamic
> range be the same as the e620?
>
> Roger D. Williams wrote:
>> On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 08:24:17 +0900, Ken Warner <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I've read that the Pen is basically an Olympus e620 --
>>> for whatever that's worth...
>>>
>>> Roger D. Williams wrote:
>>>
>>>> However, I have an "early adopter" friend who bought the PEN and he
>>>> found it had a noticeably narrower dynamic range, which is less than
>>>> ideal for panoramas. So if you are thinking of getting the PEN + Sigma
>>>> 4.5mm lens, it would be worth trying it out first.
>>
>> Hmmm. Not worth much, I feel. They might well have used some of the same
>> working parts (foolish not to) but the form factor and user
>> experience are quite dissimilar.
>>
>> Roger W.
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>

--
Business: www.adex-japan.com
Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger

[bohonus]

--- In [hidden email], Bjørn K Nilssen <bk@...> wrote:
> There is also this Sunex fisheye http://www.superfisheye.com/ to consider
> Might be a good choice?
> Here's a white paper on using it on th E-P1
> http://www.sytsma.com/sunextest/sunexonep1.pdf
> Looks good to me!
> And it's a very compact solution with the rotator from Sunex and a monopod.
>
> --
> Bjørn K Nilssen - http://bknilssen.no - panoramas and 3D

Ah perfect! I TOTALLY forgot about that Sunex. Thanks Bjørn :)

Exactly what I was looking/hoping for to use on my GF1. The fixed aperture and focus is a nice bonus too and keeps things simple.

[DemonDuck]

Sounds like a nice system to me also.  If I only had the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

bohonus wrote:

>
> --- In [hidden email], Bjørn K Nilssen <bk@...> wrote:
>> There is also this Sunex fisheye http://www.superfisheye.com/ to consider
>> Might be a good choice?
>> Here's a white paper on using it on th E-P1
>> http://www.sytsma.com/sunextest/sunexonep1.pdf
>> Looks good to me!
>> And it's a very compact solution with the rotator from Sunex and a monopod.
>>
>> --
>> Bjørn K Nilssen - http://bknilssen.no - panoramas and 3D
>
> Ah perfect! I TOTALLY forgot about that Sunex. Thanks Bjørn :)
>
> Exactly what I was looking/hoping for to use on my GF1. The fixed aperture and focus is a nice bonus too and keeps things simple.
>
>
>

[bohonus]

--- In [hidden email], "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...> wrote:
> Do you find that the GF1 has a narrow dynamic range, as my friend did
> with the PEN?
>
> Roger W

Yes I did. I can recover a much larger portion of highlights from my D300 shots in Adobe Camera Raw. The D300 has 14bit A/D conversion though. Can't find the A/D spec for the GF1. Perhaps it is 12bit A/D then? or?

I wonder how well the in-camera stabilization of the Pen (the GF1 does not have this feature) will work with the Sunex as the whitepaper linked to in the other post did not not mention it. Seems like it could be a nice feature as well when using a monopod or doing handheld.

[bohonus]

--- In [hidden email], "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...> wrote:
> Do you find that the GF1 has a narrow dynamic range, as my friend did
> with the PEN?
>
> Roger W

I forgot to mention that the exposure bracketing on the GF1 is pretty wonky. Perhaps a future firmware update might address it.

[DemonDuck]

The test shots go together pretty easy but I think he kicked the tripod
on one of the shots.  There's some parallax error that shouldn't be there.

I'd be happy with that setup.  Or on the GF1.

bohonus wrote:

>
> --- In [hidden email], Bjørn K Nilssen <bk@...> wrote:
>> There is also this Sunex fisheye http://www.superfisheye.com/ to consider
>> Might be a good choice?
>> Here's a white paper on using it on th E-P1
>> http://www.sytsma.com/sunextest/sunexonep1.pdf
>> Looks good to me!
>> And it's a very compact solution with the rotator from Sunex and a monopod.
>>
>> --
>> Bjørn K Nilssen - http://bknilssen.no - panoramas and 3D
>
> Ah perfect! I TOTALLY forgot about that Sunex. Thanks Bjørn :)
>
> Exactly what I was looking/hoping for to use on my GF1. The fixed aperture and focus is a nice bonus too and keeps things simple.
>
>
>

[Roger D. Williams]

On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:56:45 +0900, Bjørn K Nilssen <[hidden email]>  
wrote:

> There is also this Sunex fisheye http://www.superfisheye.com/ to consider
> Might be a good choice?
> Here's a white paper on using it on th E-P1
> http://www.sytsma.com/sunextest/sunexonep1.pdf
> Looks good to me!
> And it's a very compact solution with the rotator from Sunex and a  
> monopod.

Very interesting and well-written paper. Claims to be impartial, too, which
is good.

I did notice some fairly obvious chromatic aberration that will probably
require an extra stage of processing before stitching.

And the restricted dynamic range means using HDR, although hopefully the
pseudo HDR from RAW files may be enough for many cases.

I like the look of their rotator, too.

Roger

--
Business: www.adex-japan.com
Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger

[Roger D. Williams]

On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 11:09:42 +0900, bohonus <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> --- In [hidden email], "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...>  
> wrote:
>> Do you find that the GF1 has a narrow dynamic range, as my friend did
>> with the PEN?
>>
>> Roger W
>
> Yes I did. I can recover a much larger portion of highlights from my  
> D300 shots in Adobe Camera Raw. The D300 has 14bit A/D conversion  
> though. Can't find the A/D spec for the GF1. Perhaps it is 12bit A/D  
> then? or?

Hmmm. I'll see if the Japanese camera mag reviews quote that. They do
usually give very complete specs.

> I wonder how well the in-camera stabilization of the Pen (the GF1 does  
> not have this feature) will work with the Sunex as the whitepaper linked  
> to in the other post did not not mention it. Seems like it could be a  
> nice feature as well when using a monopod or doing handheld.

Ah, that's another useful feature... at my age (early 70s) hand shake
is becoming an increasing problem. Of course it's less of a problem with
a monopod. That maybe why it wasn't mentioned.

Where can I find the best price for a Sunex + rotator? The cheaper US$
vs. the JPY (my local currency) is making things more affordable.

Roger

--
Business: www.adex-japan.com
Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger