Silverlight 3D better than Flash?
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Caudwell
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I've not seen much discussion on Google here yet - but it looks like Sliverlight 3 3D is going to be pretty good. Overall if it wasn't for the browser penetration I think Silverlight is starting to look quite attractive.
Anyone had any thoughts on this? I'm interested in your thoughts on the performance, interaction and aliasing in Silverlight compared to Papervision. I first got interested in 3D stuff when Microsoft talked about Avalon a long time ago but even this new Silverlight 3 isn't as powerful as that. I'm thinking Flash and Papervision is still the way to go whilst Flash has the best browser penetration... |
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Steve D-7
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I'll start developing for Silverlight when it has true cross-platform capability.
On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Caudwell <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Mark I. Ross
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Hey all,
Expect that this is largely due to my inexperience with PV3D, but I am trying to create a CompositeMaterial of a MovieAssetMaterial and a PhongMaterial. In essence I have a cube that one side will have this composite material, and the goal is as the user moves their mouse side-to-side, the cube will rotate back and forth slightly and the reason I want to use the PhongMaterial is to get a nice light-effect sheen kind of rolling across the face of the cube. This doesn't seem to work though, if I do: var myFaceCompMaterial:CompositeMaterial = new CompositeMaterial(); myFaceCompMaterial.addMaterial( new MovieAssetMaterial( "image1_mc", true, false, false, true ) ); myFaceCompMaterial.addMaterial( new PhongMaterial( mylight, 0xE7FCFE , 0x6F6F6F, 1 ) ); I only see the PhongMaterial and if I reverse the order in which I add them I only see the MovieAssetMaterial. I have a feeling there is some way to do what I want but I don't think I'm approaching this the right way. I had thought perhaps I could set the fillAlpha on the PhongMaterial but it has no effect. Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated! Cheers, mark _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list [hidden email] http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org |
speedok1
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In reply to this post
by Caudwell
I would rather for go unity3d or o3d if the penetration level didnt matter:)
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slopester
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In reply to this post
by Steve D-7
Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)
recently:
my agent - hey I've got this great job! do you know
Silverlight?
me - wtf is silverlight? does anyone actually
use that!?
my agent - their client is microsoft
me - lol
that's my experience of it ;-)
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Mark I. Ross
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Our experience was similar, we built a video player that supports both flash and windows media content, for flash we use a flash video player and for windows media we use a silverlight video player (just instantiating the player as required). What we found after checking out stats is that the majority of users would rather not see the content than install silverlight. And we are talking major network tv shows here (yes I work for a broadcaster), not just random UGC videos like youtube or whatever. We also get a ridiculous of email on a daily basis asking us why we support silverlight, that don't we know microsoft is evil, and how dare we even have silverlight content. So, yeah. Users simply don't trust or like Microsoft enough to install silverlight. Everyone already has flash so it's really a no brainer. Just my 2 cents! Cheers, mark > recently: > my agent - hey I've got this great job! do you know Silverlight? > me - wtf is silverlight? does anyone actually use that!? > my agent - their client is microsoft > me - lol > > that's my experience of it ;-) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve D > To: [hidden email] > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 7:38 PM > Subject: Re: [Papervision3D] Silverlight 3D better than Flash? > > > I'll start developing for Silverlight when it has true cross-platform > capability. > > > > On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Caudwell > <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > I've not seen much discussion on Google here yet - but it looks like > Sliverlight 3 3D is going to be pretty good. Overall if it wasn't for > the > browser penetration I think Silverlight is starting to look quite > attractive. > > Anyone had any thoughts on this? > > I'm interested in your thoughts on the performance, interaction and > aliasing > in Silverlight compared to Papervision. > > > > I first got interested in 3D stuff when Microsoft talked about Avalon > a long > time ago but even this new Silverlight 3 isn't as powerful as that. > > I'm thinking Flash and Papervision is still the way to go whilst Flash > has > the best browser penetration... > -- > View this message in context: > http://www.nabble.com/Silverlight-3D-better-than-Flash--tp24115984p24115984.html > Sent from the Papervision3D mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > _______________________________________________ > Papervision3D mailing list > [hidden email] > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > Papervision3D mailing list > [hidden email] > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.364 / Virus Database: 270.12.80/2187 - Release Date: > 06/19/09 06:53:00 > _______________________________________________ > Papervision3D mailing list > [hidden email] > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org > _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list [hidden email] http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org |
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John Grden-3
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In reply to this post
by Caudwell
My *opinion* is that when it comes to 3D, browser penetration takes a back seat. When you show a client "hey, this is what you can do in PV3D/Flash, this is what you can do in Unity3D", the discussion ends pretty quickly depending on what they're trying to achieve. It's very clearly either PV3D/Flash or Unity3D, but browser penetration seems to not crop up in the discussion.
So, for things like UI and Marketing websites, you can't beat PV3D/Flash - it makes too much sense. you have enough power and room to accomplish most tasks. If you're after a game or hi-end product demo where shaders and poly's are critical, opting for Unity3D is easy. For some companies, Player penetration *is* everything and you can't get them off the fence about that. Doesn't matter *what* you show them. So, Silverfish will gain momentum for sure as long as Flash player is unable to leverage hardware accel and play in the same kiddy pool as Unity and Silverfish. BUT, I think we all need to remember that Flash is still largely used as a great 2D/animation/RIA application platform. 3D, I think, I still a small minority of Flash development. my 2 cents.
On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Caudwell <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- [ JPG ] _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list [hidden email] http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org |
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Caudwell
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In reply to this post
by Caudwell
Interesting - I agree with what you said John about it depending on what the client is looking for - I've had those experiences where once you show them something any objections they had before go out of the water!
Still not much comment on Silverlight performance / features vs Flash - good points re. Unity etc.... ;-)
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tomsamson
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I´d go for flash for anything 2D on the web if plugin penetration is
more important than visual fidelity and hardware requirements, or its about low fi 3D; and i´d go for unity3d if visual fidelity is more important, it should also run nice on machines below dual core/ highend cpu with tons of ram or if you target mac, pc and iphone. I´d go with silverlight if MS or another client pays me a lot of money to do something in silverlight. On Jun 19, 2009, at 11:10 PM, Caudwell wrote: > > Interesting - I agree with what you said John about it depending on > what the > client is looking for - I've had those experiences where once you > show them > something any objections they had before go out of the water! > > Still not much comment on Silverlight performance / features vs > Flash - good > points re. Unity etc.... ;-) > > > > > > > Caudwell wrote: >> >> I've not seen much discussion on Google here yet - but it looks like >> Sliverlight 3 3D is going to be pretty good. Overall if it wasn't >> for the >> browser penetration I think Silverlight is starting to look quite >> attractive. >> >> Anyone had any thoughts on this? >> >> I'm interested in your thoughts on the performance, interaction and >> aliasing in Silverlight compared to Papervision. >> >> >> >> I first got interested in 3D stuff when Microsoft talked about >> Avalon a >> long time ago but even this new Silverlight 3 isn't as powerful as >> that. >> >> I'm thinking Flash and Papervision is still the way to go whilst >> Flash has >> the best browser penetration... >> > > -- > View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Silverlight-3D-better-than-Flash--tp24115984p24118875.html > Sent from the Papervision3D mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > _______________________________________________ > Papervision3D mailing list > [hidden email] > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list [hidden email] http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org |
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tomsamson
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Not to just blame MS, but yeah, just as technology by itself
Sikverlight isn´t iappealing enough to me to jump into it just out of curiosity (and heck, i try a lot of technology/ languages out of geek interest and due to seeing high potential in it), so yeah, as you said, it would be a very expensive project =) On Jun 20, 2009, at 10:24 AM, Carlos Ulloa wrote: > Couldn't agree more, but for silverlight you need also to account > for the time wasted learning it, the interesting stuff you'd have > learnt otherwise and the pain of using a pc. Would be a very > expensive project indeed. > > C4 > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 19 Jun 2009, at 22:21, tomsamson <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> I´d go for flash for anything 2D on the web if plugin penetration >> is more important than >> visual fidelity and hardware requirements, or its about low fi 3D; >> and i´d go for unity3d if visual fidelity is more important, it >> should also run nice on machines below dual core/ highend cpu with >> tons of ram or if you target mac, pc and iphone. >> I´d go with silverlight if MS or another client pays me a lot of >> money to do something in silverlight. >> >> >> >> On Jun 19, 2009, at 11:10 PM, Caudwell wrote: >> >>> >>> Interesting - I agree with what you said John about it depending >>> on what the >>> client is looking for - I've had those experiences where once you >>> show them >>> something any objections they had before go out of the water! >>> >>> Still not much comment on Silverlight performance / features vs >>> Flash - good >>> points re. Unity etc.... ;-) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Caudwell wrote: >>>> >>>> I've not seen much discussion on Google here yet - but it looks >>>> like >>>> Sliverlight 3 3D is going to be pretty good. Overall if it wasn't >>>> for the >>>> browser penetration I think Silverlight is starting to look quite >>>> attractive. >>>> >>>> Anyone had any thoughts on this? >>>> >>>> I'm interested in your thoughts on the performance, interaction and >>>> aliasing in Silverlight compared to Papervision. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I first got interested in 3D stuff when Microsoft talked about >>>> Avalon a >>>> long time ago but even this new Silverlight 3 isn't as powerful >>>> as that. >>>> >>>> I'm thinking Flash and Papervision is still the way to go whilst >>>> Flash has >>>> the best browser penetration... >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Silverlight-3D-better-than-Flash--tp24115984p24118875.html >>> Sent from the Papervision3D mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Papervision3D mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Papervision3D mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org > > _______________________________________________ > Papervision3D mailing list > [hidden email] > http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list [hidden email] http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org |
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Mark I. Ross
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In reply to this post
by tomsamson
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The pain of using a PC? Wow,
are you serious?Flash runs a hundred times better on windows than it does on the Mac, I'll take that any day of the week. Carlos Ulloa wrote: Couldn't agree more, but for silverlight you need also to account for the time wasted learning it, the interesting stuff you'd have learnt otherwise and the pain of using a pc. Would be a very expensive project indeed. _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list [hidden email] http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org |
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tomsamson
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Do we turn this into a Mac vs PC war now? Those are nonsense to begin with cause everyone should know the best way to get the pros of Mac OS and Windows is to buy a mac where you can then legally and without much trouble run both on it =) Besides that the argument of flash running worse on Mac OS is no argument against mac OS to me (cause there´s lots of stuff that runs the same or better on Mac OS) but an argument against flash to be honest (Cause clearly its adobe´s fault, not to insult them but just to put the facts straight they are known for creating apps/ technology that generally uses way more ressources than it should and runs way crappier on a certain setup than tit should). On Jun 20, 2009, at 3:31 PM, Mark I. Ross wrote:
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Mark I. Ross
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Some javascript/style in this post has been disabled (why?)
But we're flash developers on
this list. Regardless of whether it's Adobe fault or not, we are all
Flash developers and why wouldn't you want to run your development
tools on the (significantly) faster platform?*shrugs* tomsamson wrote:
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tomsamson
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Well, first of all as i said on a mac you can run the best version of an app and run it on the OS it runs best on. So if an app runs better on Windows, well, boot up windows on your mac, that easy. So your argument against macs is way off. Next up i don´t see myself as "flash developer" cause i´d find that very restricting. I use the technology and language that i think fits the job best. So in cases where flash is the tool/technology that fits the job, i´d use that, in another case unity3d might be fitting much better for example and then i´d go for that. And that runs nice on Windows and Mac OS. On Jun 20, 2009, at 4:14 PM, Mark I. Ross wrote:
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Michael Cronin
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In reply to this post
by Mark I. Ross
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I don't think it is either/or when it comes to Flash and Silverlight. For me Silverlights potential lies in its .NET integration and I happily run Windows on my Mac when I need it :-)The whole PC vs Mac debate seems redundent these days (although apples latest trick of releasing a new better speced 17" MacBook Pro just a couple of weeks after my purchase of the previous model with the resulting devaluation of my computer leaves me a bit sour!) On Jun 20, 2009, at 4:14 PM, Mark I. Ross wrote:
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tom rhodes
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RAI (www.rai.it) here in italy just did all their live tv stuff in silverlight, dunno if that was a requirement or a choice though seeing as they use flash for a lot of other stuff on the site. either way, anyone wanting to watch public tv online in italy has to install silverlight...
from talking to a .net developer i can see why it would be their tool of choice seeing as they can be doing back end/front end/silverlight development in a single environment using a single language...
2009/6/20 Micheal Cronin <[hidden email]>
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Caudwell
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In reply to this post
by Caudwell
I guess I asked my original question to try and help me feel better for not having time right now to invest in learning Silverlight - it's like when a new version of Flash comes out - or now Silverlight / O3D / Unity I have to ask the questions about the investments I've made in ActionScript and flash based solutions...
If there is a solid busines case for investing the time, fine but otherwise it is a drain on my resources! As for the Mac vs PC stuff - jees, I didn't mean to kick that one off with my original question. I think its so self indulgent to go on and on and on about your OS choice. Maybe part of it is to justify to yourself the investment you've made in your chosen OS - similar to part of the original reason for wanting to get some feedback on the 3D features of Sliverlight 3... :-)
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tom rhodes
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yeah i haven't touched/wanted to touch silverlight yet, but it will only take a few months and already you could argue in italy after RAI have used it a big percentage of italians online will have it. bit of a coup for microsoft, if the BBC, and a big network in the states started using it too...
then it seems there's a case for investing some time in getting to know how it ticks...
2009/6/21 Caudwell <[hidden email]>
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tomsamson
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I still don´t see a reason to use it then other than a big client paying one to use it, which is very rare at best. Just because a TV channel uses it for its web presence (even if its the biggest one in a country), that doesn´t give the technology market dominance in any way. So many different types of people consume so many different sorts of media on so many different device types today, for a technology to be really anywhere near dominating the market in penetration numbers it would have to cater to all or at least most of those and achieve good adoption in at least several of them. What about youtube, vimeo and all the other user generated video portals? What about all the other tv channels in all countries? What about all the flashy advertising sites? What about the huge online gaming market? What about usage on iPhone etc? A few years back many would have said MS has the force to push any tech into the market to be market dominating, just due to being able to bundle it with the most used OS. Well, things are changing, Mac OS and other things are becoming more and more popular on desktop/ notebook sides and besides that the internet already for a while is now more and more used on smartphones and other devices where MS doesn´t have such a clear dominance. We´re mostly doing games these days, in between also some video portal and advertising stuff and for all those unity3d and flash have for a good while been the most sensmaking solutions and i don´t see much that speaks for silverlight being used more than these or as replacement for these; it has less penetration, less device type support; less functionality on many ends. On Jun 21, 2009, at 2:02 PM, tom rhodes wrote: yeah i haven't touched/wanted to touch silverlight yet, but it will only take a few months and already you could argue in italy after RAI have used it a big percentage of italians online will have it. bit of a coup for microsoft, if the BBC, and a big network in the states started using it too... _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list [hidden email] http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org |
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Mark I. Ross
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In reply to this post
by tom rhodes
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Microsoft is signing deals
with companies basically forcing them to use it for certain things.
Like in the last Olympics they forced NBC to use it for coverage on the
web, and you just know it wasn't all peaches and buttercups because as
soon as the Olympics were over NBC kicked that shit to the curb.This is how Microsoft plays ball, they offer companies money to use Silverlight, trying to drive up adoption. :-/ tom rhodes wrote: yeah i haven't touched/wanted to touch silverlight yet, but it will only take a few months and already you could argue in italy after RAI have used it a big percentage of italians online will have it. bit of a coup for microsoft, if the BBC, and a big network in the states started using it too... _______________________________________________ Papervision3D mailing list [hidden email] http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org |
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