Thunder-Sky batteries

[Duff Kindt]

I am ordering batteries directly from Thunder Sky . These will be 90 AH and 160 AH LFP's.  If there is any interest let me know as the larger the order the lower the price.
Sincerely Duff Kindt
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[Bill Dennis]

Where are you located?

Bill Dennis

Duff Kindt wrote:
> I am ordering batteries directly from Thunder Sky . These will be 90 AH and 160 AH LFP's.  If there is any interest let me know as the larger the order the lower the price.
> Sincerely Duff Kindt
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>
>  

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[AMPrentice]

Have you considered the Seiden Batteries 3.2 @ 100AH?
They also make packs to your measurements with BMS.
http://www.seidenbattery.com/product_vehicles.asp
96v 100ah, it is 4153.9USD, and for the BMS, it is 869.67USD,
about $138 US each
For the 96v 200ah, it is 8307.69USD, and for the BMS, it is 987USD.
about $277 US each.

Duff Kindt wrote:

I am ordering batteries directly from Thunder Sky . These will be 90 AH and 160 AH LFP's.  If there is any interest let me know as the larger the order the lower the price.
Sincerely Duff Kindt
_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

[echas]

Seiden seems to have the best price per $/Whr but didn't I read the maximum
discharge current is 2C? As a maximum, may be kinda low for EV applications.
At least TS spec's 3C if one can believe it.

I'm also concerned about the number of cycles to expect from both Seiden and
TS at 1C or 2C rates. They only spec 1000 cycles at C/2 or C/3,
respectively.

Charlie

----- Original Message -----
From: "OHMyGod!" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 11:14 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Thunder-Sky batteries - why not Seiden Batteries?

>
> Have you considered the Seiden Batteries 3.2 @ 100AH?
> They also make packs to your measurements with BMS.
> http://www.seidenbattery.com/product_vehicles.asp
> 96v 100ah, it is 4153.9USD, and for the BMS, it is 869.67USD,
> about $138 US each
> For the 96v 200ah, it is 8307.69USD, and for the BMS, it is 987USD.
> about $277 US each.
>
>
> Duff Kindt wrote:
>>
>> I am ordering batteries directly from Thunder Sky . These will be 90 AH
>> and 160 AH LFP's.  If there is any interest let me know as the larger the
>> order the lower the price.
>> Sincerely Duff Kindt
>> _______________________________________________
>> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
>> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -----
> There is a pleasure in the pathless woods,
> There is a rapture on the lonely shore,
> There is society, where none intrudes,
> By the deep Sea, and music in its roar;
> I love not Man the less, but Nature more.   - George Byron
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Thunder-Sky-batteries-tp18330177p18331052.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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[txhokie4life]

Will these be single cell? Or full paks?
What is the estimated cost?

thanks,

Mike

Bill Dennis wrote:

> <div class="moz-text-flowed" style="font-family: -moz-fixed">Where are
> you located?
>
> Bill Dennis
>
> Duff Kindt wrote:
>> I am ordering batteries directly from Thunder Sky . These will be 90
>> AH and 160 AH LFP's.  If there is any interest let me know as the
>> larger the order the lower the price.
>> Sincerely Duff Kindt
>> _______________________________________________
>> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
>> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>
>
> </div>

_______________________________________________
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For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

[Roger Heuckeroth]

I'm looking at purchasing some LiFePO4 batteries from China also, but  
I'm concerned about the high internal resistance reported on the TS  
brand.  It results in quite a bit of voltage sag under high current  
conditions (as well as energy loss and heat production in the  
battery).  I'm looking into about 5 different suppliers and plan on  
getting one sample cell from each that are in my price range to  
evaluate.  All come complete with BMS/charge control.

Also, are you planning on using both the 90s and the 160s in the same  
conversion?  If so, that is not a good idea, because the 90s will run  
out of juice well before the 160s.
On Jul 7, 2008, at 9:25 PM, Duff Kindt wrote:

> I am ordering batteries directly from Thunder Sky . These will be 90  
> AH and 160 AH LFP's.  If there is any interest let me know as the  
> larger the order the lower the price.
> Sincerely Duff Kindt
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ 
> ev

_______________________________________________
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For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

[Paul Peavyhouse-2]

I know only a few people that have worked w/ TS batteries, but all the have
independently agreed that the batteries would be better used as a paper
weight than to power an EV.

Pv
On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 6:18 AM, Roger Heuckeroth <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I'm looking at purchasing some LiFePO4 batteries from China also, but
> I'm concerned about the high internal resistance reported on the TS
> brand.  It results in quite a bit of voltage sag under high current
> conditions (as well as energy loss and heat production in the
> battery).  I'm looking into about 5 different suppliers and plan on
> getting one sample cell from each that are in my price range to
> evaluate.  All come complete with BMS/charge control.
>
> Also, are you planning on using both the 90s and the 160s in the same
> conversion?  If so, that is not a good idea, because the 90s will run
> out of juice well before the 160s.
>  On Jul 7, 2008, at 9:25 PM, Duff Kindt wrote:
>
> > I am ordering batteries directly from Thunder Sky . These will be 90
> > AH and 160 AH LFP's.  If there is any interest let me know as the
> > larger the order the lower the price.
> > Sincerely Duff Kindt
> > _______________________________________________
> > For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> > For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/
> > ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

_______________________________________________
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[Roger Daisley]

I live in Pullman, WA


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
America needs your thoughts:
http://www.SpeakUpForAmerica.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Dennis [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 7:57 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Thunder-Sky batteries

Where are you located?

Bill Dennis

Duff Kindt wrote:
> I am ordering batteries directly from Thunder Sky . These will be 90 AH
and 160 AH LFP's.  If there is any interest let me know as the larger the
order the lower the price.
> Sincerely Duff Kindt
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/ For subscription
> options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>
>  

_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/ For subscription
options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 3248 (20080707) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com


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[Neon John]

On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 20:14:45 -0700 (PDT), OHMyGod! <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>Have you considered the Seiden Batteries 3.2 @ 100AH?
>They also make packs to your measurements with BMS.
>http://www.seidenbattery.com/product_vehicles.asp
>96v 100ah, it is 4153.9USD, and for the BMS, it is 869.67USD,
>about $138 US each
>For the 96v 200ah, it is 8307.69USD, and for the BMS, it is 987USD.
>about $277 US each.

Any idea what kind of Li chemistry these use?  Unless I'm missing it, I don't
see the chemistry described on that page.

This brings up something that I've been pondering for awhile.  Suppose I'm in
a large warehouse full of LiFePo batteries.  Is there any quick AND reliable
test that I could do to ensure that each battery that I selected was good?

Terminal voltage, of course.  High current voltage sustain.  Internal
impedance?  What else?

The notion that has been kicking around in the back of my mind is this.
Suppose we got up a group buy large enough to buy a container full of
batteries.  They could then be purchased directly from the Chinese
manufacturer.

The amount of money and the number of batteries involved would make it
practical and advisable to send someone to the factory to select the batteries
from the production run.  The incremental cost for this individual would be
small to each person in the group.

My question is, is there any test or series of tests that could be applied to
each battery under consideration in a short period of time, say, under 2 or 3
minutes, that would reliably pick out the good batteries?   The quantity of
batteries involved would preclude a thorough full discharge test.

I suspect that if we went directly to the factory with a container-full order,
the price of these batteries would probably come very close to what we're
paying "retail" for lead-acid batteries.

If such a group buy were to come about, I'd certainly be good for a couple
hundred volts' worth.  I might even be willing to manage the project.  But
only if there is some method to reliably select out the bad cells and pick the
good ones.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
I'm going crazy. Wanna come along?

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For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

[jondrums]

I'm really intested in knowing the answer to this question too -

I would think that one could make a small microcontrolled device that could
hook to the two terminals and do some quick 30sec to 2min test and display
the results on a LCD - or even better print a sticky label with the results.

That would add a lot of value to the product.

Certainly there is some kind of standards for Quality Control for
manufacturing lithiums - perhaps we could use that standard in some way.
Jon

>>Have you considered the Seiden Batteries 3.2 @ 100AH?

> This brings up something that I've been pondering for awhile.  Suppose I'm
> in
> a large warehouse full of LiFePo batteries.  Is there any quick AND
> reliable
> test that I could do to ensure that each battery that I selected was good?

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[Rick Beebe]

Neon John wrote:
> I suspect that if we went directly to the factory with a container-full order,
> the price of these batteries would probably come very close to what we're
> paying "retail" for lead-acid batteries.

ThunderSky publishes their volume pricing. From $2.00/Ah under 10000Ah
ranging to $1.00/Ah for over 500000Ah.

> If such a group buy were to come about, I'd certainly be good for a couple
> hundred volts' worth.  I might even be willing to manage the project.  But
> only if there is some method to reliably select out the bad cells and pick the
> good ones.

Marty Mercer posted this a little over a month ago:

> For anyone interested, I'm brining in a 20ft container of LiFePo4 12v,30ah
> batteries. I may be able to have other voltages etc configured with enough
> lead time in the order. If interested contact me off list.
>
> Thanks
>
> -- Marty Mercer Sacramento, CA

Dunno if he got any takers. I'm interested in the concept but I'm not
ready to buy batteries yet. When I am I'm going to have a chat with the
folks at http://www.electricwheelsinc.com/ first.

There's also a ThunderSky group on Yahoo. They tried to organize a group
buy last Fall but I don't think it got very far.

--Rick

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[Roger Heuckeroth]

FYI.  Thunder Sky now has an exclusive agent in Arizona.  I was sent  
to them by the factory see

http://www.elitepowersolutions.com/

They supposedly have battery packs with BMS and chargers in stock in  
the US.


On Jul 8, 2008, at 3:58 PM, Rick Beebe wrote:

> Neon John wrote:
>> I suspect that if we went directly to the factory with a container-
>> full order,
>> the price of these batteries would probably come very close to what  
>> we're
>> paying "retail" for lead-acid batteries.
>
> ThunderSky publishes their volume pricing. From $2.00/Ah under 10000Ah
> ranging to $1.00/Ah for over 500000Ah.
>
>> If such a group buy were to come about, I'd certainly be good for a  
>> couple
>> hundred volts' worth.  I might even be willing to manage the  
>> project.  But
>> only if there is some method to reliably select out the bad cells  
>> and pick the
>> good ones.
>
> Marty Mercer posted this a little over a month ago:
>
>> For anyone interested, I'm brining in a 20ft container of LiFePo4  
>> 12v,30ah
>> batteries. I may be able to have other voltages etc configured with  
>> enough
>> lead time in the order. If interested contact me off list.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> -- Marty Mercer Sacramento, CA
>
> Dunno if he got any takers. I'm interested in the concept but I'm not
> ready to buy batteries yet. When I am I'm going to have a chat with  
> the
> folks at http://www.electricwheelsinc.com/ first.
>
> There's also a ThunderSky group on Yahoo. They tried to organize a  
> group
> buy last Fall but I don't think it got very far.
>
> --Rick
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ 
> ev

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[Willie McKemie-3]

On Tue, Jul 08, 2008 at 04:41:27PM -0400, Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
> FYI.  Thunder Sky now has an exclusive agent in Arizona.  I was sent  
> to them by the factory see
>
> http://www.elitepowersolutions.com/
>
> They supposedly have battery packs with BMS and chargers in stock in  
> the US.

I don't think they currently offer any cells larger than 90ah.

--
Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime  206 days 10 hours 55 minutes

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[txhokie4life]

Here is a link for one of their 160Ah products.

http://elitepowersolutions.com/products/product_info.php?cPath=1_17&products_id=41

Willie McKemie-3 wrote:

On Tue, Jul 08, 2008 at 04:41:27PM -0400, Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
> FYI.  Thunder Sky now has an exclusive agent in Arizona.  I was sent  
> to them by the factory see
>
> http://www.elitepowersolutions.com/
>
> They supposedly have battery packs with BMS and chargers in stock in  
> the US.

I don't think they currently offer any cells larger than 90ah.

--
Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime  206 days 10 hours 55 minutes

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[Norm Woodward]

Sigh, unfortunately no they don't...  Like everyone else they want you
to put your money down now on a shipment that won't arrive for a few
weeks yet.  I haven't been able to find anyone who has stock in the US,
that I can drive to and pick up, that has a BMS, and that gives warranty.

..
Norm
http://www.wacparts.com



Roger Heuckeroth wrote:

> FYI.  Thunder Sky now has an exclusive agent in Arizona.  I was sent  
> to them by the factory see
>
> http://www.elitepowersolutions.com/
>
> They supposedly have battery packs with BMS and chargers in stock in  
> the US.
>
>
> On Jul 8, 2008, at 3:58 PM, Rick Beebe wrote:
>
>> Neon John wrote:
>>> I suspect that if we went directly to the factory with a container-
>>> full order,
>>> the price of these batteries would probably come very close to what  
>>> we're
>>> paying "retail" for lead-acid batteries.
>> ThunderSky publishes their volume pricing. From $2.00/Ah under 10000Ah
>> ranging to $1.00/Ah for over 500000Ah.
>>
>>> If such a group buy were to come about, I'd certainly be good for a  
>>> couple
>>> hundred volts' worth.  I might even be willing to manage the  
>>> project.  But
>>> only if there is some method to reliably select out the bad cells  
>>> and pick the
>>> good ones.
>> Marty Mercer posted this a little over a month ago:
>>
>>> For anyone interested, I'm brining in a 20ft container of LiFePo4  
>>> 12v,30ah
>>> batteries. I may be able to have other voltages etc configured with  
>>> enough
>>> lead time in the order. If interested contact me off list.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> -- Marty Mercer Sacramento, CA
>> Dunno if he got any takers. I'm interested in the concept but I'm not
>> ready to buy batteries yet. When I am I'm going to have a chat with  
>> the
>> folks at http://www.electricwheelsinc.com/ first.
>>
>> There's also a ThunderSky group on Yahoo. They tried to organize a  
>> group
>> buy last Fall but I don't think it got very far.
>>
>> --Rick
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
>> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ 
>> ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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[AMPrentice]

I wouldnt go TS since they screwed our own community.
Although they didnt screw me or many others here why
take the risk and also why support such scum activity?
I would like to try the Seiden battery since they have a
supposedly one year guarantee this is what they wrote me
recently when I asked about this, of course how could I
enforce the guarantee if its in China?

¨Thanks for your kind reply.

And for the testing, now every battery before out of the factory must be passed the serioused test by the engineering and other departments, such as the capacity testing, voltage testing, imdepance testing, etc, do not worry about the quality, all the batteries are out of the factory will be great.
And for the warranty,it is usually one years, but it is damaged by the customers, we will not take the responsibility, and we have to get the testing report and pictures, is it ok for you?

And for the dimension, i wonder if possible, could you tell us the what is your required the dimension of the batteries packs,then our engineers can check and give you suitable dimension of the batteries packs, is it ok? i am sincerely waiting for it.

What type of the batteries you used before, lead acid atteries, NI-CD batteries or the others?
Should any question or anything we can do for you,please kindly let me know freely and any of your enquiry will get our prompt attention.

Thanks for your attention and look forward to your kind early reply.

Best wishes

Chris zhang
Zhuhai Sanchuan Electronic Technology Co.LTD
Tel:[phone]
Fax:[phone]
Cell:86-13928004956
www.chinabatterycenter.com¨

[plumerj]

I'd be interested depending on final price.

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Duff Kindt <[hidden email]>

> I am ordering batteries directly from Thunder Sky . These will be 90 AH and 160
> AH LFP's. If there is any interest let me know as the larger the order the
> lower the price.
> Sincerely Duff Kindt
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/ 
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev 
>
_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

[echas]

Same here...but only 160's.

Charlie

----- Original Message -----
From: <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Thunder-Sky batteries

> I'd be interested depending on final price.
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Duff Kindt <[hidden email]>
>
>> I am ordering batteries directly from Thunder Sky . These will be 90 AH
>> and 160
>> AH LFP's. If there is any interest let me know as the larger the order
>> the
>> lower the price.
>> Sincerely Duff Kindt
>> _______________________________________________
>> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
>> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
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[AMPrentice]

John they are lifepo4

Neon John wrote:

On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 20:14:45 -0700 (PDT), OHMyGod! <[e-mail]> wrote:

>
>Have you considered the Seiden Batteries 3.2 @ 100AH?
>They also make packs to your measurements with BMS.
>http://www.seidenbattery.com/product_vehicles.asp
>96v 100ah, it is 4153.9USD, and for the BMS, it is 869.67USD,
>about $138 US each
>For the 96v 200ah, it is 8307.69USD, and for the BMS, it is 987USD.
>about $277 US each.

Any idea what kind of Li chemistry these use?  Unless I'm missing it, I don't
see the chemistry described on that page.

This brings up something that I've been pondering for awhile.  Suppose I'm in
a large warehouse full of LiFePo batteries.  Is there any quick AND reliable
test that I could do to ensure that each battery that I selected was good?

Terminal voltage, of course.  High current voltage sustain.  Internal
impedance?  What else?

The notion that has been kicking around in the back of my mind is this.
Suppose we got up a group buy large enough to buy a container full of
batteries.  They could then be purchased directly from the Chinese
manufacturer.

The amount of money and the number of batteries involved would make it
practical and advisable to send someone to the factory to select the batteries
from the production run.  The incremental cost for this individual would be
small to each person in the group.

My question is, is there any test or series of tests that could be applied to
each battery under consideration in a short period of time, say, under 2 or 3
minutes, that would reliably pick out the good batteries?   The quantity of
batteries involved would preclude a thorough full discharge test.

I suspect that if we went directly to the factory with a container-full order,
the price of these batteries would probably come very close to what we're
paying "retail" for lead-acid batteries.

If such a group buy were to come about, I'd certainly be good for a couple
hundred volts' worth.  I might even be willing to manage the project.  But
only if there is some method to reliably select out the bad cells and pick the
good ones.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
I'm going crazy. Wanna come along?

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[Metric Mind]

This sounds oh so familiar...

Good luck with your purchase. Personally, I wouldn't take
their brand new batteries even for free, but YMMV.

You've been warned.

--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
'01 in-AUDI-ble - handsome car with 0.4 MW AC drive (in works)


Duff Kindt wrote:
> I am ordering batteries directly from Thunder Sky . These will be 90
> AH and 160 AH LFP's.  If there is any interest let me know as the
> larger the order the lower the price. Sincerely Duff Kindt
> _______________________________________________ For general EVDL
> support, see http://evdl.org/help/ For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>


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